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A7mad
Oud Admirer
Posts: 5
Registered: 12-11-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
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heavy oud
i noticed that the ebony oud by M.F.Shehata weighs more than any oud i came across,should i be concerned here , cause i heard that generally ods
should not be heavy...
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by A7mad
i noticed that the ebony oud by M.F.Shehata weighs more than any oud i came across,should i be concerned here , cause i heard that generally ods
should not be heavy... |
I don't think ebony makes a good tonewood. Many oud makers builds to heavy instruments and ebony ribs needs to be thinner than other woods, else
you have a very heavy instrument that the tone will be suffering. The renaissance and baroque lutes are very light instruments and also if they are
made of ebony.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Haluk
Oud Junkie
Posts: 419
Registered: 2-6-2004
Location: Aydin-Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: oud and saz producer
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We use Ebony wood for fingerboards and pegs.It is heaviest and strong wood.Only Ebony wood sinks in the water because of it's heavy specific
gravity.As my opinion it is not useful for to build oud or saz-baglama.
Regards all.
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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A7mad
As far as I know about M.F. Shehata ouds is they are always numbered.
What oud number do you have?
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The Ebony Rosewood Oud that I have is fine 
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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Hello Zul
How you doing there brother?
I hope things are getting better for you there.
I was asking A7mad about his heavy Shehata oud .. what number is it?
Do you know what number Ebony ouds come under?
Kind Regards,
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Emad
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Mamdouh
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 1-5-2004
Location: Sydney
Member Is Offline
Mood: Banned
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My oud is heave too
I just bought one Ebony oud and it is very heavy.. what is going on?
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Sydney
Things are ok here bro I think the Oud number on my Shehata Oud is 1101
Neck, Pegs, Peg Box, Fingerboard and all trim around the Oud is Ebony. The rest is Rosewood.
Salam
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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Zul bacha
I am glad everything is going alright for you mate.. All the best budd.
Now I was asking about the full Ebony oud. That is what A7mad was originally talking about. Rosewood is way too light comapred to Ebony .
Have you got a full Ebony oud?
How heavy is it comapred to the normal other ouds?
all the best mate !
Kind Regards,
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Emad
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi
The one I have for sale right now is not all Ebony fortunately The ribs are all
Rosewood with Ebony spacer between them and the soundboard is Spruce of course
Its slightly heavy around the Neck and Peg Box area because they are all Ebony I guess. Overall I think its ok - doesnt bother me at all to be honest
with you - still deliver great sound 
Salam
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Zulkarnain
Hi
The one I have for sale right now is not all Ebony fortunately The ribs are all
Rosewood with Ebony spacer between them. Its slightly heavy around the Neck and Peg Box area because they are all Ebony I guess. Overall I think its
ok - doesnt bother me at all to be honest with you - still deliver great sound.
Salam |
Yeah , Zul, good for you brother I am happy it delivers a great sound. I'll keep this in mind when I want to buy a new oud. but this is not what
I am going on about !!
If you say your oud is "slightly heavy" yet it is not made of full Ebony. If it is fully Ebony how heavy would it be?
I am not sure if you would be able to answer me this .. What happens if you receive a faulty oud ? Do you return it to Shehata or what do you do? Does
Shehata shop provide warranty after sale?
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi
Yeah u can always return the Oud back to him (the last 6 Ouds I order from him arrived with 2 of it with some damages) He said I can return them back
and he will replace it for a new one.
I reckon if its a all Ebony Oud, the weight might be a bit more heavier than the one I have now
Salam
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Hi Sydney,
Ebony is a much denser wood than say walnut or padauk. It is going to be heavier. It is also more expensive. Price an ebony guitar on the Net to see
what I mean. As far as damaged ouds go, my guess is the oud got damaged during shipping. When Mav and I were in Egypt Maurice showed us a beautiful
oud that looked perfect to the eye. The soundboard was inlaid with intricate silver pieces and mother of pearl. Maurice was not satisfied with the
sound of that oud. The next time Mav and I went to his shop, we saw that the soundboard was removed and was broken to pieces. He told us something to
the effect of how could he offer an oud to somebody if he himself is not satisfied with the sound of the oud. In other words, he takes pride in his
work and won't release ouds unless they are perfect. If you received a damaged oud, let him know about it. I'm sure he will work things out
with you.
Good luck,
Mike
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Hi,
First of all, Shehata's favorite wood for oud bowls and body is ebony. Why? For the sound. He loves the sound of ebony ouds, that's what he
told us in Cairo. They are just heavier because ebony is a denser wood, as Mike mentioned. It's not like you're going to break your leg
holding it, it's just heavier than you are used to. There is no defect related to the weight. If you like the sound and it plays well, there is
no problem. I have heard and played a few ebony ouds and they really tend to have a dark/rich sound that I enjoy, very Farid.
I also remember when he destroyed the silver-inlaid oud b/c he didn't like the sound. He is particular about his ouds, that is why players like
Abadi, Ahmad Fathi, and Mamdouh el Gebaly use them.
Now, about a warranty, if there is something wrong with an instrument, you should contact the maker. First be sure it was not damaged after it was
purchased, and then contact them. It is possible that any instrument from any maker might have a problem, for whatever reason. The only way to take
care of it is to contact the luthier and explain the problem. This is true for any maker of any instrument.
I personally have played many of his ouds and watched the work done in his shop, and was very impressed with their instruments and their attention to
detail.
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bastanikar
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BRAVO
That was an absolute perfect M. F. SHEHATA defence.
There was no need for it though.
Dear Mike,
I have sent you an e-mail telling you that I am having a problem with M. Shehata ouds - I sent it to you seeking only advice and I had no aim to bring
it to the open knowing that it will disturb a lot of people wishing to buy an oud from M. Shehata.
Sorry mate, you have forced me to do so.
I also told you that I have sent an e-mail to info@mauriceouds.com and I got no reply from there.
How come you could not be bothered to reply my e-mail? I know you do not care.
Any way .. I am sure a lot of oud fans have seen posts by me recommending Shehata ouds - That goes to show that I had nothing against him. but I am
also in deep shock to experience such an absolute neglection towards customers after sale to start with.
To send one oud back from Sydney to Egypt it may cost almost the price of the oud. So I might as well forget about it.
The oud I am talking about was brought by a friend and it was sitting all the way from Egypt to Sydney in between his arms.
Zul, when you send ouds back to Egypt .. who pays for that? I do not have oud shop or an on line web site to sell ouds. I can only work hard to save
money and buy one oud.
Mr. Mavrothis,
I remember long ago you have strongly supported playing the oud for at least four hours "DAILY". This won't be very pleasant when the
oud is heavier than normal. But again this thread was started by a member named A7mad more than a month ago.. how come you have decided to step in
now? Any way thanks for dropping those lines. Mike said the same words right before you.
There is so much to say but sadly I do know for sure that it is not going to get us anywhere.
Thank you all for your opinions.
Kind Regards,
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Emad
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Here's some news for you Emad, talk to any professional player, and they will tell you the same thing about practice time - how many hours does
Afif Taian usually practice before a performance? Are you no longer a fan of his playing? How many hours does Munir N. Beken practice before a
concert tour? Guess. Any advice I give is from advice I've received or personal experience.
Why did I step in now about this oud? I'll tell you, b/c I'm tired of how you insist on insulting people, whether it's webmasters or
luthiers, and then pretending like you don't know what you did. Do you own a telephone? If you do, use it and call Shehata about any problem
you may have. Why do you constantly need to create drama on the net? Nobody forced you to get an ebony oud, I certainly never told you to. The fact
is the ones I've played sounded great. And, every luthier I've ever spoken to has made at least some instruments that needed reworking at
some point, nobody is perfect.
Another reason I've stepped in is b/c I think it's pathetic that before you even try calling Shehata and talking to him in person, you go
out of your way to badmouth him on the net. How Christian of you Emad, always creating arguments and badmouthing people, that's the way good
people act. BRAVO TO YOU.
I'm obviously in the wrong by passing on advice I've gotten from world-renowned players about practice. And of course I'm wrong in
pointing out that if you have a problem with an instrument, you should act like a man and do everything you can to contact the luthier (i.e. phone
him) instead of acting like an immature baby and badmouthing him in a public forum.
Let me guess Emad, are you getting ready to "forgive me?" Save it man, I'm not writing here b/c I care about you one way or the other,
I care for sticking up for someone's reputation whom I respect.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Emad,
You are pathetic, and your attitude is dispicable. How many times have you caused silly back and forth arguments before? Honestly, I can only remember
you as being the only person to ever instigate such silliness. I'm sick of your holier than thou attitude.
I responded to your email, but apparently you did not bother to read it. I was surprised to see your post this morning, basically implying that
Maurice's ouds arrive damaged. Anyway man, I'm not going to argue with you.
Emad, you are wrong about one thing though. We are getting somewhere. You have been banned to ever post in these forums again. This decision has
nothing to do with "defending" Maurice's ouds, as you put it. He doesn't need me or Mav or anybody else to defend his reputation.
The respectable artists who play his ouds speak volumes.
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Mamdouh
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 1-5-2004
Location: Sydney
Member Is Offline
Mood: Banned
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I'd like to be banned too.
Hey,
I am not sure if Emad saw this
The guy told you that he contacted Shahata and got no reply ... why did you give the blind eye to this?
Mav-you take sides and you never tell the truth. You even repeat Mikes word for word. you do not even play half as good as Emad.
I'd like to be banned too.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Maybe his email isn't working. He said he didn't get a response to the email he sent me, yet I replied to him.
No problem. I can make that happen. You are now banned.
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
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I wouldn't like to be banned... back to ebony ouds?
If the thread can return to ebony ouds for a bit, Necati Celik has an amazing oud built I believe in the 1970s whose body is made almost entirely of
ebony. I think it was a gift from his teacher, Cinucen Tanrikorur. It is an exceptional instrument with a very unique and beautiful tone, but I have
played other ebony instruments that in no way sounded nor played similar. Perhaps this one ebony oud is an exception, but it is one of the finest
instruments I've ever seen or played. And yes, it's very heavy- about twice as heavy as any of his other instruments.
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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Technical thoughts on Ebony oud bowls
I wouldn't think that the resonance of the bowl contributes that much to the sound of the oud, ouds are played with the bowl in close contact
with the player's body which dampens most of the resonance anyway. What I think is an important function of the bowl is the refelction of the
sound, which can be achieved by using denser woods for the bowl and smoothing the inside. Also the stronger the bowl, the more stable the action will
be.
Having stated the above, I would consider ebony bowls to have a favorable effect on the sound and integrity of the oud.
A disadvatage to making bowls out of ebony is that they are hard to work with (cuting and bending and can dull tools fast from what I read.)
As for making the oudheavy, if it causes them to tend to slide off during playing, maybe some sort of a rubber pad (the sort you find at hardware
stores to hold wood for routing) can be used between the oud and the player's thigh which the oud rests on.
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
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... not to mention the very toxic dust produced from working with ebony!
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi
I guess this topic is pretty close now and I just want to clarify something about what I had mentioned earlier. Regarding the 2 Oud that I returned to
Mourice is not his professional one (or even build by him) It is those other Oud from other maker that he have available at his shop in Cairo and
Doha.
Salam
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Monawar Al-Jabar
Oud Junkie
Posts: 118
Registered: 1-16-2005
Location: Newcastle . UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: playing Oud
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Dear Mike
I think you have don the right thing to bannd any one who make bad coment about any one .My advise to all members is if you have a problem sort it
don't cry on the forums. This forums is for every one benefit to learn from one another and to shear any infromation that some one can learn
from. From day one of me finding this forum i have learned many things that i would have other wise . I can only thank you and every one who helped
and posted infromation on the forum.
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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I do not see anything wrong with warning the community about some poor quality instruments such as the oud from Pakistan, etc.
But it would be a problem to use the forum to defame and carry personal attacks. No one is perfect and deffects sometimes escape the quality
inspection. In making the judgement one should look at the overall quality of the products from a certain source. One out of a thousand deffect
should not reuin the reputation of a maker, considering the number of hands involved in the exchange. In this case it doesn't sound like it was
a deffect, just the nature of the item by choice.
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