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SamirCanada
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I had not seen this thread but this is a topic that is very close to my heart.
At the moment, I would consider myself and aspiring oud maker (I am just 26...) and I would like to become a professional oud maker one day down the
road.
Living in North America it is close to impossible to make a living out of oud luthiery. Only a hand full of makers have decided to do that and they
are barely eating.
Materials are expensive: check
Tools are expensive: check (PS, fernand it is impossible to make a oud with a total of tools that are worth 300$ the most basic of bandsaws to ressaw
wood is 500$)
time is expensive:
working full time a oud maker I believe can make about 10 to 15 instruments and I am inflating this number. Say he asks 3000 each instrument.
- 300 materials - cost of renting \owning shop space - cost for new tools or amortization of tools etc... lets say there is 2000$ of pure profit on
each instrument
at 15 ouds a year it comes to 30000$ - income tax lets say you have 23000$ left over.
In Canada, that is called living bellow the poverty level... which means you cant own your place, cant pay every single bill, have to get in debt and
basically cant eat.
thats if you are single... if you have a wife and kids. you are pretty much screwed.
So from now on, I will pay 3000$ for a oud gladly and I will still feel like I am stealing.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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This is a many-faceted and complicated issue. I don't have any quarrel with craftsmen who turn out such beautiful instruments, that are far better
finished than what we typically see in the Middle East. Nor do I question economic realities. And I never suggested anything about $300 worth of
tools.
But I would ask you to look at this video and explain why with the superb and more efficient tools western oudmakers have you talk about 10-15 ouds a
year, when this astute and hard-working man is turning out over 500. Yes, I appreciate that he doesn't have the time to lovingly French polish each
one, nor can he use the gorgeous rare woods (that were not used traditionally and are wrenched from dwindling tropical forests), but realistically I
can deal with such issues, while I can't afford to pay for a man-month of detailing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJWcgnuHGc
If a Western oudmaker can anually turn out 200 standard ouds at $500 and 10 luxury ouds at $2500, the economics look different. And it makes sense
that for every 20 ouds sold to casual players, one primo instrument will be sold to a professional. As my collection grows, I may some day buy one too
 But it makes no sense that everybody who takes an interest in the oud must play
an instrument that consumes what are probably inordinate time and materials. What a wonderful resource it would be for players in North America to be
able to count on a simple clean reliable oud with good pegs at the $500 level, instead of having to play mail-order oud lottery.
This is one more reason I respect Ibrahim Sukar. Yes, I understand his economics and scale are different. A man in Syria said he's selling over a
thousand ouds a month "to the Iranians", no idea if it's true. But he started out small, he hired helpers to do the simple tasks, he turned out
well-designed affordable instruments using the less expensive woods (or just what he happens to have in surplus - hint as to why some model 1s are
made of 100% walnut and others half beech), and he can still turn out custom ouds for pros like LuttGutt, or ones like this:
I hope the oud finds its way into the pop mainstream. That would jump-start its presence in the West, and I for one would love it. If the numbers
rise, craftsmen like you will face different questions. For now, maybe you are right to focus on the luxury market, but maybe if you can increase your
efficiencies, the economics can work out better.
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SamirCanada
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200 ouds in a year...
Impossible... Unless it is held together by staples...
think about it Fernand. Lets assume that a normal human being works 40 hours a week.
This is assuming your shop is super efficient and there is no tool setup to deal with and that everything goes flawless. This doesnt take in
consideration glue drying times etc...
To cut all the ribs to make a oud = 1 hour
Bend 3 ribs = 1 hour x 5 (15 ribs) 5 hours
fit each rib = 1 hour x 15 = 15 hours
Join and plane the face to thickness= 1 hour
Make and glue bridge and pickguard = 2 hours
Make basic inlays cut the face and soundholes = 1 hour
Bracing the face = 2 hours
make pegbox and fit pegs = 2 hours
make and fit the neck = 2 hours
Assembly of the face = 2 hours
sanding and scraping = 2 hours
finishing = 3 - 4 hours
stringing up = 2 hours
What do you have. At the very least and in my most conservative of estimates 1 oud takes 40 hours of work to do. (in reality because I am very
inefficient mine take about 20 more hours)
1 oud a week = 52 ouds a year... No vacations, no breaks, no down time....
It is impossible for 1 person to make 200 oud in 1 year working alone.
I ask that other members experienced in oud making as a hobby verify my numbers. They are very conservative.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Dear Samir, I'm not challenging your efficiency, I have never built an oud, so mine is far lower, and I can't tell. What I was really saying is that
if only it were possible, a higher output of simple ouds would resolve some of the luthier's economic problems, which are otherwise hard to solve, as
well as make it much easier for people who are starting out.
I was surprised at first to hear the Egyptian say a lone worker builds 5 ouds every 3 days. Looking at him work, it doesn't seem totally out of the
question, he moves like a little engine of oudmaking, if he rotates instruments as they dry, etc. Is his statement mistranslated?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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Mistranslated... or inflated.
or perhaps he means the shop with the other helpers can make that amount.
either way, its held together with staples...
the other weird thing is that the bowl he is scraping in some parts of the video is waaaaayyy nicer made then some others we see him working on. Which
means he probably makes some playable instruments and some wall hanging decorations.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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