fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Can anyone here suggest "nylon" guitar strings?
To make a short story long, I could not resist buying a very inexpensive "classical" guitar made in Indonesia. I have never liked nylon-string
guitars, but this one has a divine neck/action!
The strings are "ordinary" medium strings. The wound strings sound good, the nylons sound boring. I am looking for ways to extract a different timbre
from such an instrument. I don't know what is available. The classical guitar players seem not to approach such topics technically. Anybody here know
these instruments?
Can someone suggest some strings (preferably with low tension) they have found that might produce an interesting tone? Carbon? Nylgut? Is there a
summary of materials with typical timbre descriptions anywhere? Thanks.
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oudtab
Oud Maniac
Posts: 85
Registered: 3-17-2009
Location: France
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Bonjour fernandraynaud,
You can try these ones :
- SAVAREZ - CARTE ROUGE 520R or SAVAREZ - ALLIANCE Rouge tension Normale 540R.
- D'Addario : PRO ARTE Composite tension Normale (I play myself with on pro arte composite hard tension).
- LA BELLA Série Elite Nylon Noir 850-B (golden bass strings), interesting sound.
- Aquila white nylon Alabastro (medium tension) or Ambra (very good strings and very high tension, but very hard to find in France).
I'm about to try Daniel Mari "#810 Mari Singing Gold Guitar Strings - hard tension", with bronze-wound basses.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Merci, Michael,
Is there an explanation somewhere of what to expect from different treble strings? I do wish the trebles sounded as rich as the bass strings, but for
openers a sharper sound would help.
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oudtab
Oud Maniac
Posts: 85
Registered: 3-17-2009
Location: France
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For the treble, the most common strings are made of clear nylon.
There is also rectified or non-rectified nylon, polished (Savarez or d'Addario) or not, white nylon, black nylon...etc
If you want a real special feeling, try the gut and silk strings (Aquila). But this special feeling has a cost. You can also make your own set with
differents brands.
Try several brands like :
- D'Addario
- Savarez (http://www.savarez.fr/anglais/savarez-guitar-strings.html)
- Aquila ( http://www.aquilacorde.com/en/modern-instrument-sets/historical-gui... )
- Labella
- Augustine
- Galli
- Hannabach
...etc : http://www.stringsbymail.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cP...
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi Tony!
Do you remember FLIPAX from the Emirates? He said the same about his oud strings and ended up with PVF trebbles from Kuerschner, who also has nice
strings for Classical Guitar ... maybe have a LOOK or even discuss your needs with Mr. Kuerschner by mail.
BTW ... many guitarists use fishing lines for the trebbles, which are also PVF ... research guitar forums for further information.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
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Location: San Francisco, California
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I guess I need to explorer ANOTHER area.
I want to say that the Thomastik Plectrum brass-wound "western" guitar strings you recommended are the most amazing strings I have ever played. The
AC111 and AC110 sets are the lowest tension ever, they combine flatwound brass with roundwound brass with brass-plated steel in a set 0.010" or
0.011" based, like slinky electric guitar strings. The only guitar strings that feel good after playing oud. And yet they are loud enough for acoustic
playing. Amazing.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Well, nice to hear that ... but I expected this reaction 
Now you know, why I use this strings on my 12-string guitar and why this convinced other guitarist to give the 12-string a further try after they gave
it up before, because of too high tension.
These are the only strings I ever played, that sound like good high tension western guitar strings, but have a fantastic playability like electric
guitar strings.
Now you only need a similar solution for the nylon guitar 
Maybe Kuerschner's light tension Classic Guitar strings are what you're searching for. Sorry, I don't have experience with this strings, but I once
played Kuerschner's oud strings on a Faruk Turunz oud and they were mind blowing.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Hi Tony and Chris,
I have now on my oud Thomastik-infeld and it sounds killer on bass strings.
Check if thomastik has custom gauges or light tension sets. I dont know your string lenth but if you have
58.5 cm like mine it can handle a bit of pressure. compare to a 62cm oud lenth. You can defenitely use classical strings.
You can find in matthias site regarding tensions and brands.
http://www.lutes-strings.de/english/home.php
Thomastik-infeld
http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/guitars/index.html
Cheers
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi Philip!
The Classic nylon guitar strings?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
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Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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hey chris!
Yes it is. Its a Bit Stiff but it can hold. It has a Loud sound and fast attack snap sound to it. I not sure about the sustain (still analyzing its
sound).
But dont try it other string lenth except 58.5cm. But this only stays temporarily. I only tried it on the bass strings. On the treble no since
classical guitar strings are very fat and heavy on the treble side.
Cheers
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Flipax, I went through a pretty detailed analysis of guitar strings on oud, and what I arrived at is that Classical (Spanish) guitar strings that have
a tension on the guitar of 7 Kg or less, are safe on ouds of 58-62 cm, because by shortening the scale and tuning lower, you drop the tension roughly
in half. So it should be OK to leave them on if you like them. Steel core strings as used on Western guitars work at much heavier tension and cannot
be used.
If you want to do the detailed calculations, you should do it at least once to satisfy yourself. It's pretty simple. If you have the tension specs on
all 6 strings of a guitar string set, that's the tension for guitar tuning at 65 cm. You use that data to calculate tension on the oud.
Go to Arto's string calculator and do them string by string.
First, enter the guitar note, say bottom E, the guitar scale (650 mm), and the gauge. Work backwards by trial and error, trying densities until the
tension matches what the manufacturer provides. That's how you derive the effective density of a string, be it plain or wound.
Now change the scale to an oud scale, say to 585 mm or 615 mm, and the note to the oud tuning, say low C. The tension box will then show you roughly
the tension you will have on that string at that tuning on that scale. Then repeat the process for the other wound strings: derive the effective
density from the guitar data, then calculate the tension at the oud settings. It comes out about half of what you get on a guitar scale tuned to
guitar pitches. Every wound string will be different, so do not use the density you get for a 0.033" wound string for a 0.024" one. The plain nylon
will have the same density on all strings. Nylon has a density around 1050 Kg/cubic meter, PVF around 1800, wound strings (silvered copper on nylon
fibers) range from 4500 to 8500 kg/cubic meter, each wound string is different.
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Thanks tony for the Big Some Info " As Always" Very Informative.....................
I will Check This Out. If My Head cant tale the details I will just Rest a Bit. Smoke my shisha apple flavor.
Thanks Budd!
Salamat,
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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I have the Thomastik KR116 set on my Classical Guitar, and they are AMAZING. They are not low tension, more like medium, and they have the most
incredible sound and sustain. I plan to buy two sets to try on one of my ouds, but haven't done it yet.
Tensions look fine. The high E string is the stiffest, they spec 16.3 lbs tuned to E on a 650 mm guitar, it works out to 4.17 Kg on a 615 mm oud tuned
to c, and 3.77 Kg on a 585 mm oud tuned c. The other strings are less tension. Here are all the tensions for he KR116 set tuned Arabic on 3 different
scale ouds, 585, 600 and 615 mm. In other words, it's safe even for 615 mm.
Thomastik-Enfeld Classical Guitar set KR116 used as oud strings:
Scale: 585mm ... 600mm ... 615mm
cc ... 3.77Kg ...3.97Kg .... .4.17Kg (high E string)
gg ... 3.36Kg ...3.52kg .... 3.71kg (B)
DD ... 2.88kg .. 3.03Kg ... 3.19kg (G)
AA ....2.94kg ...3.09kg ... 3.25kg (D)
FF ....3.36kg ...3.58Kg ... 3.72kg (A)
CC ....3.38kg ...3.55Kg ... 3.73 kg (low E string)
Here's the set, you need two of them of course
http://www.juststrings.com/toi-kr116.html
Philip, so which Thomastik set(s) did you put on your 585 mm oud? The KR116?
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Microber
Oud Junkie
Posts: 853
Registered: 1-20-2006
Location: Belgium - Liège
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My try with the Thomastik KR116 here.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11094
Robert
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