licensetokrill
Oud Lover
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Persian Oud = Barbat? and a question on terminology
I'm a tad confused as to what exactly a 'Persian oud' is. I have been listening to some Persian oud players and I'm not entirely sure what I'm
hearing! 
I have found some information online saying a Persian style oud is basically a turkish style oud. Is this accurate?
Is 'Persian oud' synonymous with 'barbat'?
Also, I've been wondering what is more correct/more accepted among english speaking oud players:
1: Arabic oud
2: Arabian oud
3: Arab-style oud
Perhaps it doesn't matter, but in my experience sometimes these sorts of terminological minutiae can be sticking points for many people.
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
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Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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As a persian musician myself I use the word Barbat in three ways:
1. To refer to the Persian style/technique/way of playing Oud, as opposed to the Arabic style/technique/way of playing.
2. To refer to the ancient Persian instrument that became the modern Arabic Oud.
3. To refer to the re-invention or re-production of the ancient Barbat based on the creation of modern Persian luthier Ghanbarimehr. The most common
use of the term Barbat is this usage. This instrument has some physical differences with Arabic and Turkish Oud, but is about 80% the same. It is the
instrument Hossein Behroozinia pioneered and started using exclusively in his music.
Keep in mind, the ancient Barbat has inspired many new instrument inventions in Iran. There are so many new short and long-necked lutes that have been
invented in Iran in the last 30 years. Some of these are based on the ancient Barbat. Ghanbarimehr's model is only one design that has gained wide
usage and reputation largely due to Hossein Behroozinia's exclusive use of it.
In common terms, I only use Barbat when I want to refer to Persian style of Oud playing, or when referring to the re-invented Ouds that exist in Iran
today. I use it synonymously with Oud, and Persian Oud.
A Persian Oud may also simply refer to an Oud that was built in Iran. There are many young talented luthiers in Iran making Ouds in the Arabic design.
But they have their own unique sound. But then all Ouds by different luthiers have their own sound.
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licensetokrill
Oud Lover
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Ok, that is quite helpful.
Would you say that Persian style/technique's tuning is closer to turkish or arabic? Or is it wholly unique and unlike the other two? I ask because
I've found some sites that say the persian tuning is much like the turkish but this seems incorrect to me based on other reading. Thanks!
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
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Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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It's closer to Arabic.
low to high string: a beginner Persian Oud/Barbat player would use:
GADgc (5 courses)
for a 6 course Oud/Barbat:
CGADgc
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Anything different than the above is a non-standard tuning. For certain Dastgah (scales) it's preferable to tune differently. The overtones and open
drone strings are really important in Persian music, moreso than in Arabic and Turkish music. So you may encounter the following tunings for Persian
musicians.
For Bayate Tork in Bb:
CFADgc
For Shur based in D:
DGADgc
A half-step or full step lower:
ex. full step lower than standard FGCfBb (5 courses)
Used when playing Shur based Dastgah in C, and F.
To keep things simple, just consider the standard tunings. Ultimately, these tunings are all derivative.
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licensetokrill
Oud Lover
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Ok, gotchya. So a Turkish sized oud would not be a good choice for someone who wanted to focus on perisan music; is that a fair assessment?
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
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Quote: Originally posted by licensetokrill  | | Ok, gotchya. So a Turkish sized oud would not be a good choice for someone who wanted to focus on perisan music; is that a fair assessment?
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The design of the soundboard and a scale length no longer than 58.5 cm are the main factors that make a Turkish oud "Turkish".
The size of the oud is not a factor. Some Turkish oud bowls are shallower and narrower than some Arabic bowls, and some are deeper and wider. An oud
with a short scale length may have a long peg box. Or not. The size of ouds and barabats now being made expressly for Persian music also vary. The
Turkish way of building allows for a tuning that is higher than the tunings for Persian music. But that doesn't mean it cannot be tuned lower.
So I think the answer to your question is "no". I think the consensus is that an oud designed for Turkish music may not be the first place to look
for a sound suitable for Persian music. But I certainly would not reject the possibility. there is so much variety of sound and response within the
Turkish oud field. And you can get a very good price on some Sandi factory ouds. Some of the these might be good for Persian music,, some not.
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licensetokrill
Oud Lover
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Ah, ok I see now. Wow there is so much to the world of ouds Much appreciated!
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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"Barbat" is also Farsi for the breast of the duck. I was told by musicians in Iran that the instrument was named this because of it's shape.
The Persian Barbat as made by Mohammadi Brothers, played by Behrozinia has a different ratio of neck length to string length. The oud's neck is 1/3
the string length making a fourth at the body joint. The Barbat has a longer neck & shorter body for the same string length, making a fifth at the
body.
Then there's a historical Barbat as seen in 5th century Persian paintings where the neck is shaped into the body instead of a butt joint. Arafati made
some of these. https://www.google.com/search?q=arafati+oud&client=firefox-b&...
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al-Halabi
Oud Junkie
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Richard, I assume that you meant to say that the oud is a fifth (not a fourth) at the body joint and the barbat is a major sixth at the joint (in the
barbats I have seen the neck was 2/5 of the string length).
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