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Ibn_Rushd
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Right-Hand Technique
Hello everyone,
I watched a nice clip of Naseer Shamma teaching Oud to a number of young oud players. He talked a lot about some right-hand technique called in Arabic
"Al-Risha Al-Maqluba" meaning "The Inverted Risha" in english. Does anyone know what is he talking about? Any ideas?
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dubai244
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Hi,
Basicelly, If you hear the spanish guitar players, They play 100 tones in one Minute! Really Fast or the Rock Electrical Guitar players, they do
same thing, This is actually " Inverted Risha"!!!
This technique is found in most world wide music. In arabic Music, this technique is played by turkish-for long time age, since "Athmans" age-
and some neighber countries, such as Iran, kordistan and iraq. And it is found in Greece as well. Recently is started to spred in the region. The
Players who are playing this technique in this region such as,Yordal Tokcan, Yorgo, Jameel Bashir,Munir Bashir & his Son, Sharif Moyideen, Naseer
Shamma, Ahmed Fathi, Abadi Aljoher, Simon Shaheen and others ( such as me!)
In the Europian music, it is played by the most spanish classic-guitar players and good examples are Paco De lucia, Paco Pena and others. Even
i heard it in Bethoven and Mazart music.
I feel really sorry that naseer tried to be smart and said that as if he invited. and he said that for advertiment thing...! although he dont
need to say that, the whole world knowns who is naseer and the way he play oud!! really great.
To learn this technique, you have to have a good techer who is expert in this technique and you can not learn this by book or video. and you
need alot of practice to able be in the a good level.
Thanks
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amtaha
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I'm interested in hearing the resulting sound effect on an oud. Is there a composition or link that you can perhaps allude to?
I'm also wondering what would be the English term for the technique?
Thank you.
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dubai244
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Hi,
I want to clarify some thing here. The inverted Risha allows to play so many tones in very short time. Saying that, it doesn't mean that the oud
will same as classic guitar or electric rock guitar.
I am really sorry i dont know any web site, but i am sure one of the guys have the CD for Omar Munir Bashir called" Flaminco Night". In this CD, you
will hear omar playing flaminco with his oud & Classic Guitar and you will hear the inverted risha very clear. Actually, you can not play flaminco
with normal risha.
Thanks
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sydney
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Risha Techniques ...
Here you go guys.
This is a short clip showing
* The risha played in down direction - beginners use that style in the first couple of lessons.
* The risha played in down and up or inverted style.
Down/up technique or Inverted risha is easy to learn but needs good practice.
Inverted risha is what the right hand is all about.
Enjoy
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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amtaha
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Glenn Arthur Jr. in http://www.radix.net/~dglenn/chords/oud-for-guitarists.html discusses this.
... For both speed and tone reasons, I suggest approaching the instrument planning to use either alternate picking or "economy picking". Alternate
picking means that on each stroke you switch between downstrokes and upstrokes. Economy picking is similar to alternate picking, except that when you
change strings your next stroke is in the same direction your hand just moved.
He then goes on to give a detailed example.
(For example, starting a D-major scale on the D string, using economy picking you would play: D (3/open, downstroke), E (3/index, upstroke), F#
(3/ring, downstroke), G (2/open, downstroke, A (2/index, upstroke), B (2/ring, downstroke), C# (1/index, downstroke), D (1/index, upstroke). Using
strict alternate picking, each downstroke would be followed by an upstroke and vice versa.)
I still have a question though. In upstroking a course, do you pick both strings or just the lower one? My understanding is that, ideally, both the
downstroke and upstroke should have an equal but opposing attack in order to produce the same sound.
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sydney
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by amtaha My understanding is that, ideally, both the downstroke and upstroke should have an equal but opposing attack in
order to produce the same sound. |
Good on you mate
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Ibn_Rushd
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Thanks you guys, especially Sydney. Khalas you next Foster's is on me.
Actually I was still confused till I read about the economy picking part. I immediatley recognized it since I played Flamenco for a while and new
about it already. I never used it much because I always played finger picking style. When I used a pick I used alternate. It's amazing how the
inverted risha winded up meaning this. Jameel once posted a clip by Simon Shaheen and he was talking about this but never made this connection.
Currently I use only the alternate picking, is that a bad idea?
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SamirCanada
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Nice video Emad !
Bin Rushd: Is there any way you can post the clip of Naseer Teaching?
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Ibn_Rushd
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No walla Samir, I stumbled across it on one of those Arabic channels that no one ever watches. It was quite old too.
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billkilpatrick
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very interesting ... never heard of "economy" and "alternate" playing before. i have to say that trying to squeeze instinct into a prescribed patten
of "up" and "down" - particularly as they should end up sounding the same - might lead me to madness but i'm willing to give it a try.
are their additional patterns of plectrum use - something like the various rasgueo recognized for vihuela, baroque and flamenco guitar and charango?
... possibly with regional associations?
grazie - bill
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jshead
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what I remember from my classes with Simon Shaheen is you always alternate up and down except generally you play down stroke on main beats or when you
think it sounds better that way.
Up and down strokes should sound the same. You do that by being sure to stroke across both strings of a course.
The most 'fun' is to down stroke on a lower string then up stroke on the above string.
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Jameel
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For me the right hand technique is always an interesting subject. It's the focus of my practice, it always seems. I've seen Simon Shaheen and other
players play a series of notes with all upstrokes. It gives a sort of twangier flavor to the sound. Take a look at this clip for an example.
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jshead
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Right. if you think a series of upstrokes sounds good then you should do that.
My understading, which may very well be wrong, is that while down stroke is the dominate method for Arab oud that upstroke is dominate for Turkish.
A turkish teacher I told me that and think also Simon. Wonder if there are any turkish players who have a perspective on that.
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sydney
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Nice Clip Jameelo
I liked your example Jameel It shows the importance of both down and up strokes. Simon Shaheen has got a unique style and he knows exactly how "the
strength" and when "the right notes" to use up strokes and down strokes.
I believe that if I played "Lamma Bada" twice for example, I will end up with two different styles where up/down strokes are never exactly the same
each time.
It makes sense that down strokes would fall in the time of the main beat. It replaces the beat it self if there is no beat used. Clever players use
the risha technique to replace the beat but it comes with practice.
There are many different names for the risha technique Economy is one of them, But I do not think the name economy is related to the oud rather it is
kind of an advise to players.
What I used in my clip was 2 down and 1 up. It is a well known technique.
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Microber
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I am learning oud since a few month only. But I played electric guitar since a long time. Then that technique is very familiar to me.
When I play electric guitar, downstroke and upstroke must not sound the same (for me...)
Both can sound with a different color. I think that can be very interresting.
As far as you play with two different rishas in the same time.
I am a too young oud player to experiment it.
Does someone do that ?
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jazzchiss
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dubai244
Basicelly, If you hear the spanish guitar players, They play 100 tones in one Minute! Really Fast or the Rock Electrical Guitar players, they do
same thing, This is actually " Inverted Risha"!!!
......
In the Europian music, it is played by the most spanish classic-guitar players and good examples are Paco De lucia, Paco Pena and others. Even
i heard it in Bethoven and Mazart music.
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I think is quite crazy to talk about Spanish players playing ‘inverted risha’ because they play without any plectrum.
Flamenco guitarists have essentially the same right hand technique than classical ones, plus some effects like ‘rasgueado’.
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Microber
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I agree with you Jazzchiss.
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peppeo77
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Well, I agree that the flamenco style is played basically with the nails of the right hand. Their impressive speed is due to their practice on this
style (most of them use just 2 fingers, instead of the three you use on the classical guitar style). The inverted risha in the western guitar style is
called 'alternate picking', and the rule is very simple :one stroke down and one stroke up! Many teacher disagree on using 'economy picking', though I
think it depends on what you have to play (if it's something slow in a speedy tune, I like to use economy picking too). Anyway I found out that an
ordinary oud player has got a more defined techique than a professional guitar player here in italy...  expecially if we talk about alternate picking...or inverted risha.
Salamat, ciao, giuseppe.
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billkilpatrick
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on the following site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1.html
there are photographs of lute related paintings from the medieval/renaissance periods. the following are examples from the list in which the european
lute is played with plectrum:
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1-Pages/Image53.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1-Pages/Image81.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1-Pages/Image78.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1-Pages/Image160.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eamarin/Page1-Pages/Image171.html
recently, i've tried both "economic" and "alternative" styles of picking on my oud and found that "alternative" (more or less what i've instinctively
been doing since i first started playing the oud) works very well with a flexible plectrum held in the traditional "risha" posture but that "economic"
makes my head hurt.
conversely, "economic" works very well, albeit slowly, when the plectrum is held like a pen (depicted in one of the examples listed above) and that
"alternative" - particularly with a rigid plectrum - produces something like a plucked lute sound. rhythm suffers, however.
for me, tremolo is easy in the former and slow and clumsy in the latter.
- bill
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Brian Prunka
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My experience is that economy picking on the oud really only works for successive downstrokes, rarely for sucessive upstrokes.
In fact, a kind of "un-economical" (if I can call it that) picking occurs a lot, where you use two downstrokes in a row when crossing from a higher
string to a lower one (say from g to d).
In my lessons with Simon, we have dealt with this is great detail. One of the things he stressed was that picking is dependent on both sound and on
which strings you're playing on. You should work to get your upstrokes to sound just as strong as your downstrokes, and be able to control the volume
so that either one can be louder or softer.
As for strings:
there are 3 ways you can play successive notes on the oud, as far as strings go:
1. same string
2. lower string to higher string
3. higher string to lower string
there 4 ways you can play successive notes, as far as picking goes:
a. down-down
b. down-up
c. up-down
d. up-up
this yields 12 possible types of motion, when both picking and strings are taken into account:
a1, a2, a3, b1, b2, b3, etc.
the most common (because easiest) of these are:
a1, a2, a3: down-down, any string combination
b1, b2: down-up, same string or lower string to higher string.
c1, c2, c3: up-down, any string combination
Simon recommends practicing all of these a LOT, just on open strings (i.e., no left hand) or with simple patterns (such as skipping strings).
the other 4 kinds of motion are significantly more difficult and are rarely very practical in very fast passages
b3: down-up, higher string to lower
d1, d3: up-up, higher string to lower (this is useful when some notes in a phrase are hammered-on or pulled-off), or same string.
d2: up-up, lower string to higher--this is probably the least practical.
so, it's not really so simple as "alternate" vs. "economy"; there are 8 types of common motion and 4 uncommon types. All professional oud players
that I've heard use the 8 common types of motion, which include both "alternate" and "economy" motions.
A good exercise for strengthening your upstrokes is this:
(with a metronome on the beat; d=down, u=up; CAPS represent emphasis)
4/4 ||: D u D u D u D u | d U d U d U d U :||
||: U d U d U d U d | u D u D u D u D :||
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Brian Prunka
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by the way, dubai244, 100 notes a minute is really slow 
I can play almost 600/min on guitar, somewhat less on oud . . . and I'm not particularly fast . . .
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dubai244
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hi, Brian
I wish to be like you man .... i am trying now a days to increase my speed by practicing some turkish music and listening specially to Yordal
Tokcan. I guess he is the best in Inverted Risha. All his music and Taksims are based on Inverted Risha, without it, you can not play any of his
music.
Could you please make me a favour? I have little idea about how to read music notes and tones, and i learn them as (Do , Ray, mee , faa, sool,
La, Seee , DO), But i dont know what (A, B, C .....etc) means ?
Is it DO=A , B=Ray ...etc???!!
Thanks for sharing you experience................
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sydney
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Do Ree Mee
| Quote: | Originally posted by dubai244
I learn them as (Do , Ray, mee , faa, sool, La, Seee , DO), But i dont know what (A, B, C .....etc) means ?
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A = La,
B = se,
C = do,
D= ree,
E=mee,
F= faa,
G=sool,
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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amtaha
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The structured discussion of picking is both illuminating and exciting.
Thanks Brian.
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