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SamirCanada
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Naseer Shamma.. is it the Iraqi Style?
We often hear Iraqi oud as being the type of music played by Naseer Shamma but is it really Iraqi oud? Of course he is Iraqi and his compositions go
along the way of the ones pioneered by Munir Bashir.
I would like to know what people think of his style... is it really Iraqi? when I listen to Iraqi oud. I love Jameel Bashir he is really moving in his
taqasim. Salman Shukur, Jameel Ghanim and the whole list coming from the school of Sherif Muheddine Targan is really impressive and mostly they have a
sweet sound to there ouds. I dont know if it was always the case for all of them but It does not seem like most of them used the floating brige model.
when has the floating brige model been accepted as the Iraqi oud and replaced the standard brige oud. Is it only after Munir Bashir?
what do people think on this subject?
Naseer Shamma today has become a pioneer in his own way. the compositions he put forward are tastefull to the western ear and the sound of his oud
resembles that of a flamenco guitar. this is imo the reason he has had great succes with gaining in popularity in the west and the middle east. He has
in many ways carried on the legacy of Munir Bashir in terms of making the music more attractive to the western listener. He is the modern face of the
oud and enjoys this positions in the arab world too. Even in Egypt country where he has set up his school he is a popular teacher of his style of
playing. even though it is a style of playing that is originaly alien to the egyptians and even though his remarks towards the school of egyptian
playing were harsh.
read this
http://www.your.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6090&a...
I find this is a huge accomplishement to be able to install himself in this country and impose his style of playing as the standard.
I am not looking to start world war 3. 
I am rather interested in what people have to say about this though.
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oudman
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Technically he is very good, but in my opinion no tarab...
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Jason
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I don't think of his playing style as traditional. Is it Flamenco, is it Western, is it Iraqi? I think it's a bit of everything. He is a true
innovator.
I really dislike it when people say "oh, well if you don't play like Farid then you are not an oud player" or something. While the oud has a very
rich cultural background I think it is an instrument that can transcend it's roots and become more than just an 'ethnic string instrument'. I think
Naseer is, perhaps, doing more than anyone to achieve this.
A lot of people think of the oud as a middle eastern instrument. While true, I think it's unfortunate that this categorization limits what it can
accomplish in the ears of listeners and composers. People don't say you can only play Spanish music on a guitar... the genres it's capable of are
only limited by the imagination of the composer. I think the oud can be the same way.
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Brian Prunka
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According to musicians I know who have extensively studied Iraqi maqam, Naseer is not playing Iraqi style, in that sense.
Obviously he's a very accomplished oud player, and the question of Tarab surely will have differing opinions. He has stylistic roots in Munir Bashir,
so while not the same as Bachir, he does have at least some connection to a tradition in Iraq.
IMO, while tarab is a worthy aesthetic goal, I do not believe that it is or should be the sole criterion of musical success. There are other
aesthetic philosophies that are equally legitimate and meaningful.
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SamirCanada
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Brian: from pictures I see most Iraqi oud players before munir bashir used the standard brige oud. Probably turkish ouds? what do you think happened
to the use of that type of oud? because I cant think of it being a problem to use the high ff on that oud concidering turkish ouds can take the higher
tuning...
I feel the same way too. No tarab with Naseer...
But like Brian said its not the only way to judge music.
exepted... I really like the idea of creating Tarab so obviously Iam biased because this is what I enjoy of the oud. Or is it more that to me the
image of the oud is synonymus of Tarab? Kind of like what separates the old and the new.
Jay: while your a nice guy and all. I dont agree with you but Iam sure we could still be friends  hehehe
to me the oud is not ethnic... its a middle eastern instrument and I see it in a way that it has a well beloved and respected place within middle
eastern music. I am not ready to see blink 182 start using one 
just kidding... I know what you mean is a tastefull application like simon shaheen's blue flame or something in that sence. your right it can be
beautifull.
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arsene
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I have a Munir Bashir CD where he plays actual 50's rock 'n' roll on the oud...
Forgive me my ignorance, but what exactly is tarab? Being relatively new to the oud and all, I'm not yet familiar with the terminology.
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Brian Prunka
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I think that the different bridge has more to do with tone and projection than with tuning. A floating bridge creates a different kind of sound and
generally will project better.
Here's a sort of academic explanation of tarab:
The aesthetic concept of tarab finds no ready translation from the Arabic. Narrowly defined, it refers to musical emotion and the traditional
musical-poetic resources for producing it, especially expressive solo singing of evocative poetry, in an improvisatory style, employing the
traditional system of maqam (melodic mode). Traditionally, the singer is accompanied by a small, flexible, heterogeneous instrumental ensemble (the
takht). Affective texts, precise intonation and enunciation, proper elaboration of the maqam, idiomatic improvisation, tasteful modulation, and
correct execution of the qafla (melodic cadence) are all factors critical to the development of tarab in performance.
Tarab also depends on consonant performer-listener interactions, in which experienced listeners (sammica) react to the music by expressing emotion
through vocal exclamations and gestures, especially during the pause which follows the qafla; the singer in turn is moved and directed by such
"feedback". Through this dynamic relationship, emotion is shared, exchanged, and amplified among participants. The harmonious relation between the
singer and the words he or she sings is also critical to tarab, since the singer must sing with sidq (sincerity), expressing true feeling in order to
communicate emotion to listeners.
More abstractly, Egyptians describe tarab as a relation of harmony (insijam) or equilibrium (mucadala) between performer and listener, or the
exchange of feeling (tabadul al-shucur) between them, to the point of wahdat al-shucur (unity of feeling), or the affective melting (dhawb) of the two
into one; or the harmonious coexistence (mucaysha) of performer and listener, or poem and performer; or the connection (irtibat) between a person and
anything of beauty, for all beauty has an emotional aspect.
-Michael Frishkopf
Department of Music
University of Alberta
available here
Of course, this doesn't give you any real idea of what it is, so musical examples are really necessary.
Dr. Ali Jihad Racy has written a terrific book on tarab:
reviewed here
it seems to be out of print, sort of, but it can be purchased here
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arsene
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From what I gather, it resembles duende (in Flamenco music) quite a bit.
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hamed
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To answer the question of the floating bridge oud, it was created by Munir Bashir and Mohammad Fadel in the late 1950's, the floating bridge was to
alleviate the pressure of having high tension strings pulling on the face, also it was to create a louder sound. This has been a topic of many
previous posts.
As for Naseer Shamma, i think of him as another pioneer of iraqi oud; in other words, his way of playing is a new school in itself which is rooted in
the Iraqi oud tradition started by Haydar and the Bashir brothers.
The "tarab vs technique" argument is a very common critisism of Naseer Shamma, even munir bashir. Even i used to think this when i first heard them
play, this was because i was so used to hearing the "tarab" of Sunbati and Farid. I takes a more carefull listener to appreciate the "tarab" in
Nasseer Shamma's music. I admit that a few of his compositions may be dissonant and do not contain "tarab" but for the most part he is an excellent
musician who ballances technique and tarab better than any oud player i have heard.
thank you
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John Erlich
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Hi All,
I really enjoy Naseer Shamma's playing and, comparing him to the other Iraqi oudists whose CDs I have (Munir Bashir, Omar Bashir, Asim Al-Chalabi,
Ahmed Mukhtar, Rahim Al Haj, etc.), I have to say that there is something that I hear in his playing that sounds quintessentially Iraqi. I would
described it as "lighter" sound, with more playing in higher registers and less low-end drones.
That being said, I have to admit that I actual prefer more "traditional" Arabic-style oud.
Peace,
Udi John
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Cyberquills
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Hi Arsene
I (like Brian) recommend Dr Ali Jihad Racy's book. I'm reading it at the moment and the discussion on Tarab is both easy to read and to understand.
The whole book is great and should help you immeasureably.
CQ
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amtaha
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I've thought about this matter, both relative to Naseer and more generally regarding certain forms of art, e.g. painting, sculpting, poetry.
Linguistically, the notion of tarab can't be directly translated
(the entry "tarab" results in the following many words:
hilarity , gaiety , fun , exhilaration , exultation , ecstasy , glee , joyfulness , elation , rapture , buoyancy , transport , cheer , rhapsody , jag
, delight , joy)
http://qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_H1.asp?Lang=A-E&Sub=%d8%d1%c8
A simplification would be that it's a certain mix of joy and euphoria.
The specific notion of tarab that accomodates Farid, Sunbati, Fakhri, Wahab, etc. is common because many have grown accustomed to this specific mode
of exchange.
And it is an exchange in the sense that what goes from player to audience need to be well played/composed/improvised, in an acceptable medium that
legible on the aduience side. The "feedback" that Brian mentions is what happens in the other direction, and in this case it's a basic and primitive
transmission (clapping, "en core", "bravo", etc.)
Now, if we step away from this specific notion of "tarab", we'd realize that for any other notion of "tarab" to exist, the exchange needs to be
prepared for. In other words, one cannot appreciate what he does not understand.
Something that is both ugly and beautiful in this matter is that there are no absolutes. It's really all relative. And it's also not a matter of
(instinctive) taste, because tastes can be acquired. (I really, really hate those who use the term "educated" here - for different reasons.)
And beyond taste, there's also the matter of interpretation. Some forms of art, I think, have relyed on dealing directly with the capablities of the
primitives senses (color or image or sound combinations), aiming at the feelings that arouse within the receiver. And the difficulty here becomes is
whether one is capable of identifying his own feelings. In effect, the journey to understand the artist here becomes a journey to understand
yourself.
Of course, there are other forms of appreciation (.g., for the technical difficulty of a certain piece or improvisation. But it's always nice if, at
the end, if things would make sense.
As I said, these are only my thoughts on dealing with the specific and general notions of "tarab." I could be wrong in some matters and, if so, I
apologize.
Regards,
Hamid
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TheCuddlyDevil
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Regarding "Tarab".
I live in Saudi Arabia, and nearly everyone I've met understands tarab as a "party" feel. This is the modern, understanding, however. Um Kalthoum at
her time was considered having "tarab".
Now, if a song makes you want to dance, it has "tarab". But, personally, I hate that. In fact, it's the reason I don't listen to vocal Arabian music
at all! I just dislike that huge genre.
So, is Naseer tarab to me? If we're applying the modern "w00t!" feel; no. If we're applying the original "musical ecstacy" feel; yes.
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SamirCanada
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this is a GREAT thread.
really insightfull stuff from all the knowlegeable members.
The article and the book are a great find thanks Brian.
Hamid you bring interesting points.
Hamed do you know when it became the norm to use the floating brige? was it a huge hit and adopted by all oudists or did it take a while to reach this
status. In iraq today is there oud players that still refuse to perform on floating brige ouds?
cuddlydevil: what would a small jalsah between a few people be concidered? tarab?
Is the term tarab used for songs from say Haifa Wehbe or Nancy Ajram? that would suprise me but could you say more about this?
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palestine48
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My understanding of tarab or the best english word that was told me that defines it is the word "rapture". essenially tarab is this hypnotic trance.
that a listener gets caught in when he hears a soulfull singer pou his heart and emotions into his lyrics.
its kinda like, even though this is orientilist stereotype,, how a snake responds to a snake charmer. if you have ever seen a cartoon scene of that,
its the idea, it hypnotically follows the music.
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ron
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i found this that may shed more light on this fascinating topic.
Tarab in the Mystic Sufi Chant of Egypt
Michael Frishkopf
Department of Music
University of Alberta
[Published in Colors of Enchantment: Visual and Performing Arts of the Middle East, edited by Sherifa Zuhur. American University in Cairo Press,
2001]
I. Introduction to Music, Emotion, and Sufism
The aesthetic concept of tarab finds no ready translation from the Arabic. Narrowly defined, it refers to musical emotion and the traditional
musical-poetic resources for producing it, especially expressive solo singing of evocative poetry, in an improvisatory style, employing the
traditional system of maqam (melodic mode). Traditionally, the singer is accompanied by a small, flexible, heterogeneous instrumental ensemble (the
takht). Affective texts, precise intonation and enunciation, proper elaboration of the maqam, idiomatic improvisation, tasteful modulation, and
correct execution of the qafla (melodic cadence) are all factors critical to the development of tarab in performance.
Tarab also depends on consonant performer-listener interactions, in which experienced listeners (sammica) react to the music by expressing emotion
through vocal exclamations and gestures, especially during the pause which follows the qafla; the singer in turn is moved and directed by such
"feedback". Through this dynamic relationship, emotion is shared, exchanged, and amplified among participants. The harmonious relation between the
singer and the words he or she sings is also critical to tarab, since the singer must sing with sidq (sincerity), expressing true feeling in order to
communicate emotion to listeners.
More abstractly, Egyptians describe tarab as a relation of harmony (insijam) or equilibrium (mucadala) between performer and listener, or the exchange
of feeling (tabadul al-shucur) between them, to the point of wahdat al-shucur (unity of feeling), or the affective melting (dhawb) of the two into
one; or the harmonious coexistence (mucaysha) of performer and listener, or poem and performer; or the connection (irtibat) between a person and
anything of beauty, for all beauty has an emotional aspect.
Technically, only the singer of tarab ought to be called a mutrib, but the latter term has come to mean simply mughanni (singer). Mutribin are
plentiful in Cairo, but most Egyptians say that after the passing of the great secular tarab singers, such as Umm Kulthum, tarab has become rare in
secular music. However, many describe Sufi inshad, the mystical music which is the subject of this chapter, as being rich with tarab. Indeed, in
its musical features and performative dynamics, it is reminiscent of the older pre-1930 tarab tradition, and in its emotional impact it is far more
powerful than other forms of contemporary Egyptian music.
Why should this Sufi music be so laden with tarab, while contemporary secular music is bereft? In part the answer is historical: religious music,
inherently conservative, has preserved features of the tarab tradition which generally prevailed in Arab music before the 1930s, but which have
gradually disappeared from secular music as a result of aesthetic transformations wrought by rapid political, social, and economic change. But
historical factors cannot explain why Sufi music has also changed dramatically in recent years, but not in such a way as to displace tarab. The
explanation is better to be sought in the Sufi system of belief, practice, affect, and aesthetics which facilitates the relationships of insijam and
tabadul al-shucur among poet, singer, and listeners upon which tarab depends.
Moreover, the performance contexts of Sufi inshad outside the purview of the Sufi orders demand a high level of emotional communication, for this
music has a key role to play in constructing solidarity within the fluid and ephemeral social groups of so-called “popular” (what I will
call “informal” Sufism. Thus tarab is not only expedited by Sufism, it
is required. These factors are absent in secular Arab music, which has consequently undergone a variety of transformations resulting from political
change, commercial interests, Western influences, demographic shifts, the impact of technology, changes in lifestyle, and so forth.
Here, I focus upon the role of the Sufi poet, the affective power of his poetry, and his relation to the munshid (Sufi singer) and listener, in
creating tarab in performance. I argue that it is the shared domain of Sufi thought, feeling, and practice which enables a Sufi poet to communicate
intensive mystical emotion, through the medium of language, to a munshid, who perceives the poet’s words so strongly as to experience the
affective state which engendered them. This emotional conformity is precisely insijam and wahdat al-shucur, and so the munshid yatrab min al-shacir
(gets tarab from the poet). It is again this shared Sufi domain which allows for the development of emotional conformity between singer and listener,
so that the listener yatrab min al-munshid (gets tarab from the singer), and hence transitively from the poet as well. In secular music, emotional
level is lower, and emotional connections weaker, because the common ground furnished by Sufism is absent.
this is part of a larger article. i can post the full link if anyone is interested.
ron
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SamirCanada
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it was allready posted above..
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Mike
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Download TP21's latest offering in this thread to get an idea of tarab.
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arsene
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Lorca - The Duende
Check this out:
In all Andalusia, from the rock of Jaen to the shell of Cádiz, people constantly speak of the duende and find it in everything that springs out of
energetic instinct. That marvelous singer, "El Librijano," originator of the Debla, observed, "Whenever I am singing with duende, no one can come up
to me"; and one day the old gypsy dancer, "La Malena," exclaimed while listening to Brailowski play a fragment of Bach: "Olé! That has duende !"- and
remained bored by Gluck and Brahms and Darius Milhaud. And Manuel Torres, to my mind a man of exemplary blood culture, once uttered this splendid
phrase while listening to Falla himself play his "Nocturno del Generalife": "Whatever has black sounds has duende." There is no greater
truth.
(...)
In all Arabian music, in the dances, songs, elegies of Arabia, the coming of the Duende is greeted by fervent outcries of Allah! Allah! God! God!, so
close to the Olé" Olé! of our bull rings that who is to say they are not actually the same; and in all the songs of southern Spain the appearance of
the Duende is followed by heartfelt exclamations of God alive! - profound, human tender, the cry of communion with God through the medium of the five
senses and the grace of the Duende that stirs the voice and the body of the dancer - a flight from this world, both real and poetic, pure as Pedro de
Roja's over the seven gardens (that most curious poet of the seventeenth century), or Juan Calimacho's on the tremulous ladder of tears.
Naturally, when flight is achieved, all feel its effects: the initiate coming to see at last how style triumphs over inferior matter, and the
unenlightened, through the I-don't-know-what of an authentic emotion. Some years ago, in a dancing contest at Jerez de la Frontera, an old lady of
eighty, competing against beautiful women and young girls with waists as supple as water, carried off the prize merely by the act of raising her arms,
throwing back her head, and stamping the little platform with a blow of her feet; but in the conclave of muses and angels foregathered there -
beauties of form and beauties of smile - the dying duende triumphed as it had to, trailing the rusted knife blades of its wings along the ground.
All the arts are capable of duende, but it naturally achieves its widest play in the fields of music, dance and the spoken poem, since those require a
living presence to interpret them, because they are forms which grow and decline perpetually and raise their contours on the precise present.
Check out the complete article HERE
Seems to me, duende and tarab could be the same thing, eh?
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Melbourne
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I've quickly browsed thorugh the above posts, and the correct answer is in all of them, in other words there is no specific right or wrong, but simply
interpretations, or opinions. However been of Arabic background, I think the idea of Tarab could be defined as "pleasure in sadness", through music
of course. Arabic song/music often revolves around the notion of the loss of a loved one, or been distant from a loved one, etc. I can understand if
some people could never understand the meaning of Tarab. Its a bit like how Arab women mourn the death of someone, very extreme, and there are
instances where people never get over the death of a loved one. This is very different from the notion of "celebrating the life of someone" upon
their death...my parents for example, can never understand the notion of celebrating the life of a deceased person - oh so and so died, let's throw a
gathering and have a few drinks! . This is not ignorance, its purely cultural
- at the extrems, as with Tarab I suppose.....
arsene - duende and tarab may very well be the same thing - flamenco has its deep routes in arabic music, the moors, andalusia etc
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arsene
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Melbourne
I think the idea of Tarab could be defined as "pleasure in sadness", through music of course. |
EXACTLY. This is the very idea of duende. It has everything to do with the dark emotions, it's the same in Romanian music.
Very well said, Melbourne!
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arsene
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by the way, regarding the floating bridge issue, i believe Fawzy al Aiedy plays a yaroub mohamed oud with classic bridge. So not all iraqi players
have followed this trend. I also think Yair Dalal, who is from the iraqi school, plays with normal bridge.
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TheCuddlyDevil
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The Hijaz Kar Kurd Taqsim Mike offered through a thread is, for me tarab. Not all of it, but most specifically those wavering deep notes from
0:26-0:29 (which was very beautiful).
SamirCanada: I don't know, it depends on the kind of music played. It may be bad music! Besides, I'm not a big fan of Arabian vocal music, as I said.
I've never really been into Arabian at all until recently by listening to Naseer Shammah, so now I'm hooked on instrumental (I'm contemplating buying
an Oud).
To be honest, I can't see anyone saying that Ajram or Wahby can have "tarab".
Oh, and listen to Melbourne, because he nailed the general concept of Tarab "pleasure in sadness". Which, as I said, applies to the original
meaning.
P.S. Not a big fan of either of those singers, but one song I liked by Nancy was "inta ey" if you know it.
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MatthewW
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This has been a very interesting thread and a pleasure to read what the knowledgeable players in this forum have to share with us. It seems to me that
Tarab, Duende and 'soul' are all fingers of the same musical hand. In Arabic it is 'tarab', in Flamenco it is 'duende' and other cultures no doubt
have a similiar term for the concept of deep expressive musical emotion and the 'atmosphere' produced by the performer using specifc maqams or modes
found in that culture, and also the resulting performer-listener interactions as described in the comments made above. I would think this is what the
real transforming mystical power of music is all about : the experienced performer, drawing upon particular musical maqams/modes (which are based on
the subtle emotions of the human heart and mind) takes each listener through a 'mystical/spiritual' emotional journey of both release and awakening,
sadness to joy. Beethoven ( not that he played oud) once said that "music is a higher revelation than philosophy", which I think was referring to
something like tarab or duende. We see this not only at Arabic music concerts, but with 'real' flamenco, when the performers slowly build upon a
particular mode or mood while those carefully listening are being taken along on the journey. This interplay between listener and performer seems
essential, that to create or bring about tarab or duende the participation of the listener to be 'transformed' by the music is as equally important as
the skill and playing of the performer, that these two aspects go hand in hand. I have seen this especially at classical Indian music concerts (sitar,
vocal, etc) where listener participation is quite obvious and expressive and an essential part of the concert. It has been interesting to read the
comments on Iraqi oud players and floating bridges. I know that Ahmed Muhktar, a contemporary Iraqi player uses a floating bridge. Naseer is indeed a
great player and perhaps bringing the oud to a wider audience which is good. I am not experienced enough to comment what is Iraqi style, does it
depend on what time period in Iraqi history we are looking at? Is it the style developed by Munir Bashir? One thing about music, it always changes:
styles, tastes, collaborations between cultures, etc, - especially when the world we live in keeps getting smaller all the time.
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oudman
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Tarab is tough to explain - and Racys book does an excellent job. Still, I think you need years of listening and studying the music to understand the
concept, reading a paragraph or two explaining it is not enough.
An oud player that can fly up and down the neck of the oud - impressive? Maybe. Does it make me say "Ah"? Highly unlikely.
Personally, Id prefer to listen to someone with less technical ability and more tarab - an example I always go to, Riyad el Sunbati.
Dont get me wrong, Naseer is an accomplished player, just not my cup of tea.
If you want technique and tarab, I think there are only a handful today - for me the top two are Simon Shaheen and Yurdal Tokcan. It goes without
saying that Farid had amazing technique and was a tarab player as well. Saliba Qatrib was another perfect example.
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