Melbourne
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Location: Mlebourne, Australia
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Saz Baglama - not oud related ;-)
Hi Folks
Sorry to be off topic here - but I am wondering if someone could help me as to what is a "standard" tuning for a shortneck baglama saz. I know that
there are heaps and heaps of regional variations, but surley there is a standard, as in the oud G A D G C - which would be considered by many as
standard Arabic.
And furhter to that, is it an instrument that is tuned in fourths, ie like a oud/guitar? or fifths? as in violin family...
Furthermore, I belive there is a difference between Turkish notation and western nonation, ie sol or G as played say on a piano, is a completely
different note in Turkish notation. Not sure if that makes much sense, I dont know much about it but hopefully someone can clarify...
Any feedback would be much appreciated 
Thanks in Advance
Melbourne
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mourad_X
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hi melbourne
that is a good question.
i bought me a long neck baglama three weeks ago.
i was searching and googling the internet for the same questions
and i found that the most common tuning for baglama is from low to high
G D A (the violin way) what makes me totaly confuse to play with
there are many other tunings and some of the sazfolks out there tune
the long neck baglama A D G (the blacksee-way).
another gui from anatoya told me that he tunes
LA Sol RE (A G D ) but a steb higher so it is actually B A E
may it depends on what you are playing more chords or scales...
another thing what makes me realy confuse is that the middle strings are
only treble once and the others have a bass string
so if i play an oud like riff over all the strings its so different in sound
maybe the saz should be played in another technik
and style than the oud.
i 'm just beginner on this instrument
best wishes
mourad
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Haluk
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Tune of shortneck baglama with 19 frets is LA-RE-MI
as piano.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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Hi Melbourne, I am a baglama player too, and tune as Arif Sag,-B A E, (bass to treble) the A being a tone lower than the B, then up a fourth to the E.
Musa Eroglu tunes a semi-tone higher , but same intervals, Erdal Erzincan tunes even higher at c#, but you'll find the music is written as though it
is tuned A G D.
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
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Thanks guys for the info, Haluk mourad_X and Sazi - much appreciated. So the gneral pattern is the two higher courses are tuned in fifths; so to use
Haluk's tuning, it would be D for the middle and A for the highest, and the E, in the lowest position,(ie closest to chin with instrument in playing
position) is a tone HIGHER than the middle string, ie the D? Correct? I hope I got this right....
The other thing is strings for various tunings, from my web searches, it doesnt seem like there is specific strings for specific tunings - is it all
the one standard set and players tune up and down based on their desired tuning?? so a low tuning may have loose strings, and a higher tuning may have
tense strings?
Thanks again for your comments
Regards,
Melbourne
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GuhlMustafa
Oud Lover
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For short neck I use A-G-D from low to high as well- most players I've met tune B-A-E, but my short neck is a bit long in scale, and does better with
the lower tuning. I would advise (if you're not playing in an ensemble) seeing which range makes the baglama sound its best, and go with that. Good
luck!
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Sazi
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You could try saz strings instead of baglama strings, (no, they're not the same) saz strings are generally made for longer necked sazlar and are a bit
thicker (.20 instead of .18) if you want to use lower tuning. On my baglama (.18mm strings) if I tune down to A for the bass it's a bit loose for fast
tezene, but interesting rich sound. How long is the neck from nut to bridge?
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
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Thanks for the info GuhMustafa
Sazi - I will find out on Saturday  Thats hopefully when I pick it up. So
basically I shall ask for .18 strings, for B A E tuning, which can also be used to tune down to A G D, a tone basically. So judging by these tunings
mentioned above, the one recommended by Haluk is either a very high, or a very low tuning - seems odd 
Thanks again guys
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pirsultan
Oud Addict
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Registered: 1-23-2007
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Just to add my two bobs worth, the short necked bağlama is certainly best tuned with the tuning known as bağlama or aşık düzeni
as described by others who have posted replies. This facilitates playing across the strings rather than mostly using the top sounding string and
moving high up the neck (as on the long necked saz tuned in fifths). It also suits a particular repertoire, that is Alevi aşık music like
the deyiş (mystical songs) of the Anatolian bards. Although, that said you can play most of the regional folk music with that tuning. If you are
more interested in a popular repertoire then you are probably better off with a long necked saz using the kara düzen tuning (straight fifths). The
tuning on the short necked instrument is a re-entrant tuning which may seem a little odd if you are new to it, but it is very, very versatile. The
middle string is nominally the lowest sounding although the octave tuning of the outer courses means that probably the lowest sounding string is
actually on the highest course! Sounds odd, but it works beautifully for Alevi music. You get lots of interesting harmonies and a full sound. It is
also good for the technique know as şelpe where you play with the fingers rather than a tezene (plectrum). But the type of instrument (short of
long necked) and the tuning you choose should really be based on the music you want to play.
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
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Hi pirsultan - thanks for your information. Actually there is only a certain type of baglama sound which appeals to me, and based on what you
describe above, that sound may well be the devis, and I'm guessing what you call mystical is largely achieved by the pairing (or tripling) of strings
where one is an octave lower than the other(s). I've always been interested in this sound, whether it be in baglama, bouzouki, buzuk or lauto; the
resulting sound could definitely be described as mystical...
Where about in Oz are you btw pirsultan?
Regards;
Sam
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pirsultan
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Hi Melbourne, I am in Canberra. The style of playing that works best (in my view) with the bağlama tuning is the Alevi style in which they strum
across all the strings (that is rather than playing a single line of notes, which is the style particularly suited to the tuning in fifths on the
longer necked instrument). This style tends to be very rhythmic and when playing Alevi ritual music with its repetitive structures it becomes very
mesmerising and has a 'mystical' element. Particularly so when played şelpe style (finger style). Recordings by Dertli Divani, Gani Pekşen,
Ulaş Özdemir, Erdal Erzincan, Erol Parlak and early recordings of Arif Sağ are all good places to start (and indeed finish!) with this sort
of music.
Apologies to the oud lovers for this diversion.
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