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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Alternative Sound for PVF trebles? Nylgut, Rectified, Gut or Plain? Share which brands u use!
 Hi Marhaba! To All the People Tuning in this Community!
Im Looking for an alternative for PVF Sound for G & C. I know that PVF has its own sound. But im looking if there some Sets that the
trebles are almost got the attack of PVF not necessarily same but close.
Coz I would like my Trebles to be a little bit more attack and percussive bite not dull and fat sounding. and PVF are a bit too piercing.
Because I like to stop notes and mute it from my right hand. And Also at the high registers and playing it softly then bam!! in order to get dynamics
and natural harmonics. Which is very hard if you have a normal nylon which has a Round warm earthly sound. Although you can still do it but not as
clear.
Any Suggestions? Alternative Brands?
Does the Nylon Trebles of Pyramid Lute String sets have more attack?
Thanks in Advance Guys!
I hope I could Play like the rest of you professionals Here in the forum. I a Beginner Novice.
I hope Im Making Sense..........
Please Help Im trap in this Problem.
Cant sleep for 3 days thinking of it.
Driving me nuts!
Shukran!
GodBless all of You Here In the Forum!
Shalom my friends,
-Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
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Location: Cleveland
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try the Nylgut strings, although I prefer PVF as compared to Nylgut. The 2 gg and cc strings in the aquila set are Nylgut
http://www.khalafoud.com/aquilastrings.htm
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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Good suggestion, nylguts have great attack,... but they don't sustain as well as pvf.
I also have found that the quality is too inconsistant, sometimes two strings in a course are in tune when open but go out more the further up the
neck you go, I'm not the only one to notice that, but I suppose if you play mainly in first position it doesn't matter.
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hi there
Have you tried Kuerschner strings?The trebles can be bought seperately and they have more attack than pyramids. They certainly have the capacity to
be played soft or hard and give you the dynamic I think you may be after .You can request particular needs on the ordering site. eg scale length,
tension, string sound character etc. They are a little pricey certainly for the full sets but they are long lasting.
http://www.kuerschner-saiten.de/english/start.php?spr=e
I hope you are sleeping better soon
Kelly
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi!
Quote: Originally posted by Kelly  |
You can request particular needs on the ordering site. eg scale length, tension, string sound character etc. |
Different tunings too?
I find the mentioned arabic tuning unusual: d' - a - e - B - A - E
But I read, that many people really like Kürschner strings ... they have a great reputation.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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Yes I've heard great reports from friends about Kürshner, once they've tried them can't can't go back to anything else and be satisfied! I have'nt
tried them myself.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi again!
I was blind  ... I just looked at the German site. On the English site
they mention, that different tunings are available on request
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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This is a Turkish tuning
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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I had the suspicion, but wasn't quite sure.
Fact is they call that the arabic tuning and d' - a - e - B - F# - C# the turkish tuning ... strange.
Seems to be a mistake on their website, but what will be Kürschner's real arabic tuning ... does anybody know?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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| Quote: Originally posted by Aymara |
Fact is they call that the arabic tuning and d' - a - e - B - F# - C# the turkish tuning ... strange.
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That is yet another Turkish tuning, the first is apparently used by many Armenian players, the second is common for the Turkish classical
repertoire.
There are a number of different tunings for Turkish oud
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME WHICH GAUGE FOR G & C?
Shukran Brothers!!!!
BTW Im Tune to Arabic C F A D G C F.
In Kuerschner strings....
Which Gauge/Diameter/Size normally for G & C?
I downloaded the price list in pdf but its kind of confusing on the pdf.
Thanks for helping I Think I can sleep Ok now.
Have anyone ordered from Kuerschner? and Shipped?
How Long did it arrive?
Can Anybody give some prices how much per piece?
God Bless Your Hands Whoever's Playin here In the Forum!!!
Salamat,
Philip
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hi Philip
The inch gauges on Kuerschner"arabic" set are roughly as follows: high to low
1st course c= .025": 2nd g=.029 3rd D= .023w A 4th= 0.29w 5th F= .032w 6th C= .039w.
I've only quickly measured 1 set and don't know if there is much variation between sets.
Ordering quite straightforward you just have to know the stock number from pdf file and fill out the box. there is also a section to give more
details/requests and you can always email specific questions.
Price per set is 26 Euro for nylon/pv sets and you'll need to ask about the high f''. single course pairs are approx euro 3
I'm using .020 Daddario from Jameel's site for the f'' and its ok.
Happy Hunting
Kelly
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi Philip!
HERE you'll find the price list of Matthias Wagner, a german luthier ... btw ... "11-saitig" means 11 strings.
But you might also contact Kürschner themself by mail and ask ... a german oud player told me, they are very helpful and fast. The address is HERE.
Oh ... btw ... today I had the chance to give this strings a short test ... very nice.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Thanks KELLY & CHRIS!!
Good Details Definetely Pro's.........
I will Call or email them ASAP and ask about specific gauges.
BTW hey Chris Goodluck on your new strings!
Tell me what Kuerschner strings sounds. Compare to the other sets you've used?
Shalom my Friends,
Philip
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Good morning!
I bet Kelly can answer this question better than I, because yesterday I only had the chance to give a Faruk Türünz oud a short try, which had
Kürschner strings. It sounded great and the playability was fantastic (low tension and action), but it was not my oud and I think this is important,
because for me it's hard to tell, which part of this great experience belonged to the instrument itself and which to the strings. I think you know,
what I mean.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Thanks Aymara!
I have consulted master faruk turunz about the alternative string thing. He said that pyramid lute rectified nylons trebles are good substitute to PVF
trebles.
Did anybody used a Kuerschner and Pyramid lute hear the difference on the nylon trebles?
Anybody? Cheers.....
Maybe because every people has their own style. and each style depends on the EQ of the instrument specially the timbre. some may like an traditional
sound or the Iraqi Sound.
Is Kuerschner strings better than pyramid lute string pertaining to the nylon trebles?
Which has more attack? also the tension pertaining to set strings.
Shukran
Philip
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hi Philip
In my experience the Kurschner strings once settled in have a good resonance and response. they sound neutral that is to say they are not warm or
bassy or either too harsh or bright but rather bring out the sound of the instrument. If you have a newly made oud then you will alo hear subtle
changes over the next few months anyway and depending on temp and humidity.
Ive only tried them on one oud so far but my friend Awad has tried them also on a Moussa oud and they sound good.
Tension is on the light side but as I said before you can play them hard and they don't protest but come back for more, the also respond well to light
playing too.
Just give them a try and contact Bernd for advise.
Kelly
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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| Quote: Originally posted by FLIPAX |
Maybe because every people has their own style. and each style depends on the EQ of the instrument specially the timbre. some may like an traditional
sound or the Iraqi Sound.
Philip |
That just about sums it up! Though action and scale length etc have an effect too...
You now know that both Pyramid lute strings and kürschner oud strings are good, so the best thing you can do now is try them for yourself! get a set
of either and give them enough time to settle, play with them for a while and see how YOU feel about them! If you are not happy you can get a set of
the other and try those...
Good luck, and happy ouding
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Does Anybody want to add some other Brands?
| Quote: Originally posted by Sazi |
You now know that both Pyramid lute strings and kürschner oud strings are good, so the best thing you can do now is try them for yourself!
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Thanks Sazi!
I will Try To order Pyramid Lute and kürschner sets. Right Now Im Using LaBella. The Wound Are Really Good sound...
The Trebles Are a Little Bit Dull. Its Rectified Nylon Already
Does Anybody want to add some other Brands?
Shukran
Philip
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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You could also try Savarez, a French brand of strings, they have a nice bright tone, I'm using them at the moment. (until I get my new Pyramid lute
strings).
Personally I find the wound strings accentuate finger noise if you slide, more so than Pyramid wound strings, so I guess it depends on your style of
playing...
Although many people use La Bella, I suspect that it's just because they are easy to get. I used them and thought they were fine until I discovered
the Pyramid lute strings... There really is no comparison, the improvement in tone and response was immediately noticable. I would not go back to
Labella.
But... each to their own
Oh, I just noticed on Matthias' site, you can get rectified PVF/ KF strings too, but I don't know what difference it makes to the sound, sorry.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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To avoid this noise guitarists are able to buy wound strings that are grinded. Thomastik-Infeld calls these flatwound compared to the
standard roundwound.
Aren't flatwound strings available for oud?
| Quote: | | ..., I suspect that it's just because they are easy to get. |
As Pyramid too, but a further reason many players use LaBella might be, that they have a lower tension than Pyramid oud strings. Or am I wrong?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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I think the flat wound tone is more suited to jazz guitar than oud.
And I wasn't referring to Pyramid oud strings, I was referring to Pyramid Lute strings, totally different. And I wish they were easy to get!
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sazi | | I wasn't referring to Pyramid oud strings, I was referring to Pyramid Lute strings, totally different. |
Yes, I know, but I tried to find an answer, why many players use LaBella 
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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WOW Good Discussion.
I Also personally think that its easy to get. almost some shops has LaBella Strings.
I Cant think of other options why many players use LaBella?
Maybe Its More Cheaper?
But the sound is not very responsive when you play quiet specially on the trebles. Actually when you play quietly it still ok but somewhat the sound
becomes round. I don't Know Why. Or Maybe Its Just Me.
So therefore is Pyramid Lute nylon Trebles gives more sharper sound compare to other nylon trebles
?
Because I need that Sharpness even playing quiet.
Thanks Sazi and Aymara!
Shalom my Friends,
Philip
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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I got the impression, that Pyramid oud strings (orange set) are highly available too. Maybe even better than LaBella?
So I thought, there might be more factors to take into account, when trying to answer the question, why so many players use LaBella.
| Quote: | | Maybe Its More Cheaper? |
Khalaf Oud Luthiery in the US sells the Pyramid (orange 11-string arabic oud) set for 14.50$ and LaBella (12-string Egyptian oud set) for
18.50$. So Pyramid is cheaper.
But might the different standard tunings of these sets be an explanation, why LaBella often is prefered? Pyramid is designed for C-F-A-d-g-c and
Labella for F-A-d-g-c-f.
PS:
I don't think so. On my 12-string Western guitar I tried both, flatwound and roundwound, same set from the same manufacturer and the flatwound sounded
similar brilliant, but the playability was better with much less streaking noise.
Ok, on the 12-string I use steel strings ... would the difference be greater with wound nylon? Would flatwound nylon sound too dull?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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