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Post starting 6-4-2009 onwards.

found it!

thanks

faggiuols - 11-17-2014 at 01:51 AM

an update!
I finished folding the ribs and proceed with the completion of them.
Use a glass with sandpaper applied to have a perfect surface.

[file]33357[/file]

faggiuols - 11-17-2014 at 01:56 AM

the ribs are coming pretty well and the surfaces coincide, when I combine them to see if I can paste them.

I produced the base to warm them with iron as recommended by Jdowning. at the moment I put the ribs finished with a rubber band.
I have yet to find the iron!

faggiuols - 11-17-2014 at 02:02 AM

I also started numbering definitive of the ribs for the bonding phase.
the 1 is the first. on the left in even numbers growing, on the left in odd numbers growing.

below the ribs to be finished.

[file]33361[/file]

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:08 AM

good morning to all!
An update from my work.
I am preparing the stage of gluing the ribs according to the method recommended by Jdowning.
in the photo the paper that I will use to close the ribs.
I also got the glue on the block as recommended by Jdowning.

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:15 AM

and here's the first rib glued !!!

[file]33407[/file]

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:17 AM

of course before I paste the iron rib with iron as the foto shows. (also suggested by Jdowning !!). Then I prepared the paper glue for fastening the ribs during bonding, but my time was not much and I had to postpone the operation for another day. the next day I found the glue paper curled as he said Jdowning. therefore it is ready for use. indeed it was said that it would be ready after about 20 minutes, but perhaps the different types of paper made no difference.

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:22 AM

very well. everything goes according to plan!
I could not try the glue paper because I had to place the thread between the ribs. so I cut a strip of maple and glued it to the rib # 2 ..
then will paste together rib and white thread!

I can use the glue paper even after a few days I made it?

[file]33415[/file] [file]33417[/file]

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:27 AM

I'm pretty pleased with all the work today. especially because the information received from this forum have proved useful and clear.
I thank all those who kindly helped me in the beginning of this adventure and hope they do not leave me alone in the continuation of the work.
the next one!
bye

SamirCanada - 11-21-2014 at 09:32 AM

The Rosewood is looking good Faggiuols!

however, I am concerned that the tape is also wrapped around the section that will touch the next rib... this cant be there otherwise it wont be glued properly to the rib. I am sure you know that however

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 09:58 AM

The Rosewood is looking good Faggiuols!

however, I am concerned that the tape is also wrapped around the section that will touch the next rib... this cant be there otherwise it wont be glued properly to the rib. I am sure you know that however

Hello Samir. Thanks.

I had to pull the thread of maple to tighten glue.
after I will clean the bonding surfaces before gluing the ribs.
what difficulties there may be with the tape on the surface bonding?

SamirCanada - 11-21-2014 at 10:12 AM

I meant, I hope you will remove that tape before you glue to the next rib!

now I see, the maple, it is very thin!
In an effort to save you time and headache I can assure you that you can glue the 2 ribs and the middle strip of maple all at the same time.

Just put glue on the ribs and on the strip and use the tape to clamp everything together.

also you have a chance to damage the maple strip when you remove the tape.

What kind of glue are you using? hide (animal) glue? you don't need to use the paper right at the beginning, you can just use a fine brush to put glue only where it needs to be on the edge of the ribs, after that when it comes time to glue to the next rib, you can use the heat gun to soften the glue and push it against the next rib.
No need to use the iron and paper, its an old messy technique and you have the heat gun so use it

believe me this will save you A LOT of time at the end to scrape the bowl.

you can put the paper on the inside after you have finished the bowl of the oud between the ribs.

faggiuols - 11-21-2014 at 10:36 AM

I meant, I hope you will remove that tape before you glue to the next rib!

now I see, the maple, it is very thin!
In an effort to save you time and headache I can assure you that you can glue the 2 ribs and the middle strip of maple all at the same time.

Just put glue on the ribs and on the strip and use the tape to clamp everything together.

also you have a chance to damage the maple strip when you remove the tape.

What kind of glue are you using? hide (animal) glue? you don't need to use the paper right at the beginning, you can just use a fine brush to put glue only where it needs to be on the edge of the ribs, after that when it comes time to glue to the next rib, you can use the heat gun to soften the glue and push it against the next rib.
No need to use the iron and paper, its an old messy technique and you have the heat gun so use it

believe me this will save you A LOT of time at the end to scrape the bowl.

you can put the paper on the inside after you have finished the bowl of the oud between the ribs.

now I can not show you a picture of the wire, but it's straight and paste it need to do so slowly, feature by feature.
I can not hold it in position curve to glue, conveniently, the two ribs.
That is why I decided first paste the wire to the rib 2 and then will paste both to the rib # 1.
I will post a picture that explains better than my English!
I use animal glue! I can also use the iron to heat the joint between the ribs if it is not perfect ..
it is true that the paper to be polished after glue has to be tough !!
I was thinking of using a scraper ..

SamirCanada - 11-21-2014 at 11:05 AM

ok I see you didn't bend the maple strips... you can do that if you want. using a few pieces of tape to hold all the maple strips together, you can bend them all at the same time like a rib! but only risk it if you think you can do it and you have extra strips.

Using a scraper is good but really, it will be a pain in the ass to scrape off all the hide glue. It dries like a piece of glass!
make sure you don't burn the glue when you reheat it, I see a lot of oud makers use the technique and they burn the glue.. its not good it only needs a little bit of heat to return liquid. trust me we don't need to have a lot of glue everywhere only a small precise amount between the ribs will save you lots of time on scraping and clean up.

jdowning - 11-21-2014 at 01:00 PM

You might find the slide show of an oud under construction by Turkish luthier Dincer Dalkilic to be of interest - on his website here:

http://www.oudmaker.com/index.php

Note that Dincer is using that 'old messy technique' of glued paper strips to assemble the ribs of the bowl (including the lines between the ribs that are bent in place with a hot iron). It works just fine for him!

All that paper and glue on the exterior of the bowl is of little consequence as it will be completely removed anyway as a matter of course once the bowl exterior surface is finished to a smooth semicircular profile with scrapers and sandpaper.

SamirCanada - 11-21-2014 at 02:59 PM

Sir John I am not disparaging the old techniques for no reason. Even without the messy paper technique scraping off dried hide your squeeze out is a pain for me and there is really barely any at all.

It would be a nightmare to scrape off a bowl that is basically laquered in glue. Further to this I have heard that this technique is prone to burning the glue and causing glue failures after a short period of time.

jdowning - 11-21-2014 at 03:32 PM

You have no actual first hand experience of the benefits (or otherwise) of this traditional oud /lute making technique do you Samir - you are just expressing an opinion.

SamirCanada - 11-21-2014 at 04:29 PM

Yes thats correct, its what i was told by a luthier and also by someone who's Oud developed major problems from the technique used. You are right I didn't do a scientific experiment to determine if say it was the technique that was the issue, if the iron was too hot or maybe the glue used was spoiled. Surely there is a way to do it right, and I think using a clothes iron with some steam will be safe enough. Especially compared to the turkish method of leaving an iron on a open gas flame for an extended period of time.

however i have experience scraping Oud bowls, as do you. We know you enjoy dull things in life but I am sure scraping lute bowls for an eternity isn't one of those things

faggiuols - 11-22-2014 at 03:11 AM

thanks Samir and Jdowning
for your interest in my work. if my oud will be an acceptable thing, it will be much for your contribution.
I understand very well what it says Samir. hot glue when you plug is difficult to remove. However, the technique that Jdowning suggests is very charming.
I do not do oud to sell but only for my pleasure! So I can take more time to do things like fascinates me more!
I would like to try it.
maybe it will not be good so I will the traditional one way.
I however have to sand 1 mm thickness of the bowl so I have to work hard in any case on it.
I also like the fact that I can mount the ribs without waiting for the glue is dry the previous!
I'll try. of course I will update !!! thanks

faggiuols - 11-22-2014 at 03:16 AM

I would also like to know from Jdowning
if he thought the images of the paper glue prepared seems correct.
I can also use it after a few days or should be used within a short time?
thanks
PS did you see this post?
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15306
there is a question for you with a my drawing about the deformation of the oud that interested me.
thanks

jdowning - 11-22-2014 at 06:48 AM

I don't want to spend time going over in detail stuff that has already been posted on the forum. The glued paper method for bowl making is described here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8488&pa...

Starting at 6-4-2009. The way to prepare the glued paper etc. is summarised at 6-8-2009 and the best method for fast and clean removal of the exterior paper strips (after removal of the bowl from the mold and gluing of the internal rib joint reinforcement) is described at 6-15-2009. As you will see the paper strips should be freshly prepared for each rib being glued.

The paper coated bowl ensures that the bowl is held together without risk of the rib joints separating due to handling until the interior joint reinforcement is glued in place. Removal of the exterior paper is not a particularly tedious operation so likely would not be of interest to members of the Dull Men's Club. Removal of the paper also takes with it most of the glue the remaining thin glue residues are then easily removed during the normal finishing operation on the bowl that would be done regardless of whether or not glued paper strips had been used. Scraping accurately made lute bowls for eternity is not a necessity. Oud bowls require a greater amount of finishing work to remove excess material required to produce a smooth semicircular exterior surface.

Don't use a steam setting on a household iron for any of this work! A better tool for the job is a small thermostatically controlled electric iron however a much simpler iron is one that is easily made and heated on an electric stove element (set to a low temperature) or open flame. Regardless of the method used to heat the iron, the correct temperature may be determined by experience (after a few trial and error tests) such as tapping the heated iron (quickly!) with a moistened finger tip and listening to the sound produced (splat!) - in the same way the correct temperature of a flame heated bending iron is determined. No doubt this is how the old Turkish luthiers judged correct temperature.

Concerning oud deformations under string tension. Again, I have posted information about this subject in the past so am a bit reluctant to go over the same ground again.
However, if I can find time I may post a separate topic covering specifically this subject as I think that it should be of general interest.

jdowning - 11-22-2014 at 07:47 AM

Here for information is an example of a simple heated iron made for ironing glued joints, glued paper etc. Made from a piece of scrap copper, steel rod and an old wooden file handle (for heat insulation). No need for copper as a small flat block of steel would also do the job.

As with all simple tools some experience and skill is needed to use them correctly. I have used this tool to deliberately scorch sound board surfaces so it would be possible to set fire to your oud if heated to too high a temperature. Good judgement required!

faggiuols - 11-22-2014 at 08:09 AM

I'll be careful!
then I will post the result.
thanks so much

Fritz - 11-22-2014 at 04:25 PM

good morning to all!
An update from my work.
I am preparing the stage of gluing the ribs according to the method recommended by Jdowning.
in the photo the paper that I will use to close the ribs.
I also got the glue on the block as recommended by Jdowning.

Hi faggiuols

Glueing the neck block (and the other) is a good idea ! Because the hot glue bonds perfect on itself ! If soaked deep in the block, the fit will be perfect when the ribs are pressed with the right amount of thicker glue. But... work fast, and keep in mind that all outsqueezing glue has to be wiped away as soon as possible and as much as possible... as long as the glue is flexible...

The same with the ribs... apply enough thinner hot glue to the edges of the ribs to be glued, than heat up area for area beginning on one end to the other in order to leave no glue unheated between the ribs ! An use a kind of metal clamps to pull the ribs together while heating...

Put a lamp under the glued ribs to look for through-shining light, there is not an exactly fit... Heat up again and on both sides a bit more of the joint... to let the "environment" become hot and soft to make the fit exact. Switch the light of (if it´s a 100 wa9t lamp.. so it doesnt heat the joints... :-)

Try the best :-)

Fritz

faggiuols - 11-23-2014 at 12:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fritz

thanks Fritz
for advice.
fantastic idea that the lamp under the ribs to ensure it is a coincidence between the bonding surfaces of the ribs.
Now I will try with the second rib! let's see what happens!
thanks
and bye

jdowning - 11-23-2014 at 08:05 AM

A more convenient tool for working with hot hide glue joints is a temperature controlled mini electric iron. This is the one that I use purchased from a local hobby shop. It is used for sealing plastic film on model aircraft. They are also available from luthier supply shops at about twice the price.

For this tool I set the thermostat to the half way position - the setting that works for the glued paper technique. At this setting the temperature is about 90°C to100°C the boiling point of water. So the temperature is correct when a drop of water on the hot surface of the iron will take a second or two to immediately 'fizzle' and evaporate into steam.
The ideal temperature for maintaining hide glue as a liquid is about 60°C, however, the iron in use is always kept moving over the joints first to re-liquify the glue (seen to melt) and then to set the glued paper strips in place. The paper insulates the joint underneath against over heating. At the same time the iron cools down before regaining temperature so everything balances out just fine in practice.

When the iron is used to re-liquify a sound board to bowl joint the temperature of the iron is set a bit higher as the thickness of the sound board wood slows down the heat penetration.

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 01:37 AM

A more convenient tool for working with hot hide glue joints is a temperature controlled mini electric iron. This is the one that I use purchased from a local hobby shop. It is used for sealing plastic film on model aircraft. They are also available from luthier supply shops at about twice the price.

For this tool I set the thermostat to the half way position - the setting that works for the glued paper technique. At this setting the temperature is about 90°C to100°C the boiling point of water. So the temperature is correct when a drop of water on the hot surface of the iron will take a second or two to immediately 'fizzle' and evaporate into steam.
The ideal temperature for maintaining hide glue as a liquid is about 60°C, however, the iron in use is always kept moving over the joints first to re-liquify the glue (seen to melt) and then to set the glued paper strips in place. The paper insulates the joint underneath against over heating. At the same time the iron cools down before regaining temperature so everything balances out just fine in practice.

When the iron is used to re-liquify a sound board to bowl joint the temperature of the iron is set a bit higher as the thickness of the sound board wood slows down the heat penetration.

hello Jdowning.
I looked for this item in the shops in the area are not able to find it!
I took an iron at a good price, I also need to iran the ribs before assembly.

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 01:46 AM

I mounted the second rib and here's the result.
the thread of Maple may not be perfect and may need to redo everything if the white line should not be visible along the entire bonding surface.
hours prefer to immediately remove the glue to see the result.
if everything is ok continuous with the other ribs.

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 01:50 AM

the technique is mixed!
I have used both the tape, for the first fixing, the glue paper to tighten the joint.
overall I think it went pretty well except for the fact that at one point the white line does not seem very visible. I hope that the maple emerges well after sanding!

jdowning - 11-24-2014 at 06:11 AM

If you need to force the ribs together with tape and pins then you are not using the glued paper technique correctly.

The ribs should first fit the mold and fit together perfectly without having to be forced in place.

There are insufficient paper strips applied along the rib joint if you are working along the joint bit by bit remelting the glue in the joint and applying the strips as you go.

There should not be excess glue squeezing out from under the paper strips. Are you applying glue to the rib surface as well as the paper strips? It is only necessary to pre-glue the paper strips with a uniform thin layer of glue applied at the correct temperature.

The paper strips do not appear to be in tight contact with the ribs - so likely not ironed on smoothly at the correct temperature or there is way too much glue under the paper. Either way the glued strips will not work as intended.

When gluing the ribs together it is only necessary to support the opposite rib against lateral movement with pins (or small wooden blocks) during the gluing operation.

Here is how it should look. It is an easy technique to apply - just takes a little practice

[file]33447[/file]

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 09:38 AM

If you need to force the ribs together with tape and pins then you are not using the glued paper technique correctly.

The ribs should first fit the mold and fit together perfectly without having to be forced in place.

There are insufficient paper strips applied along the rib joint if you are working along the joint bit by bit remelting the glue in the joint and applying the strips as you go.

There should not be excess glue squeezing out from under the paper strips. Are you applying glue to the rib surface as well as the paper strips? It is only necessary to pre-glue the paper strips with a uniform thin layer of glue applied at the correct temperature.

The paper strips do not appear to be in tight contact with the ribs - so likely not ironed on smoothly at the correct temperature or there is way too much glue under the paper. Either way the glued strips will not work as intended.

When gluing the ribs together it is only necessary to support the opposite rib against lateral movement with pins (or small wooden blocks) during the gluing operation.

Here is how it should look. It is an easy technique to apply - just takes a little practice

Good morning, Jdowning
the strips of tape I used for the first positioning of the rib adjacent to the one already glued. then free spaces I put the glue paper.
the glue comes out from the sides of the paper during the burn. I think I put too much glue in the paper (I am attaching a photo).
after the first glue escape from the paper glue the procedure was corrected, and the paper adhered well to the rib.
unfortunately the ribs were not perfect, partly because the first one, already glued, had been reduced in thickness up to 2.2 mm, while all the other I have not polished before assembly and are 2.8 mm. thickness.
the difference of 0.6 mm. created a bit more difficult.
I hope with the next that the procedure is easier.
a question: the glue paper retires immediately with the consequent closing of the ribs, or the withdrawal is slower and takes a few hours? in your argument which explains well the technique, I have not read this detail.
also how long I have to burn the glue paper?

in the next few days I will try the rib 3 and try to be more attentive to the procedure.
thanks a lot Jdowning

SamirCanada - 11-24-2014 at 10:19 AM

hi my friend.

looking at this picture, it appears there is a gap between rib and white wood strips,

use a flash light under to see if the light comes through. if any lights comes through it means you do not have a good joint.

there can be a 2 reasons

1- the glue in between wasn't fully softened before you pulled the ribs together. This area should be reheated with some moisture and perhaps some more glue and pull it together once again.

or

2- the ribs and separating strip do not fit, which means they are not shaped to the exact same profile and angle. you have to shape each rib exactly the same on the inverted plane or sandpaper which ever you use so that before you glue them there is no light coming through if you use a flashlight under it.
it would help to lightly pull through your strip on a light sand paper to clean up the jagged edges.

keep going don't give up!

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 10:33 AM

hi my friend.

looking at this picture, it appears there is a gap between rib and white wood strips,

use a flash light under to see if the light comes through. if any lights comes through it means you do not have a good joint.

there can be a 2 reasons

1- the glue in between wasn't fully softened before you pulled the ribs together. This area should be reheated with some moisture and perhaps some more glue and pull it together once again.

or

2- the ribs and separating strip do not fit, which means they are not shaped to the exact same profile and angle. you have to shape each rib exactly the same on the inverted plane or sandpaper which ever you use so that before you glue them there is no light coming through if you use a flashlight under it.
it would help to lightly pull through your strip on a light sand paper to clean up the jagged edges.

keep going don't give up!

thanks samir
also for the encouragement!
Now I check it okay if light passes.
I think, however, that it is a proper bonding.
the wire mapple is lower rib and creates a small shadow on the white thread.
in any case I will control better as you say!
as always thanks

jdowning - 11-24-2014 at 11:03 AM

The glue coating on the paper is excessive.
Also pay attention to the grain direction of the paper strips - the direction of curl in the strips should be across the rib joint to take advantage of the paper shrinkage (explained in the 'Old Oud - New Project' topic, link previously posted).

When you first apply glue to the rib joint surfaces it will cool and gel before the joint surfaces can be glued together. The joint must then be made - inch by inch - by re-heating the glue in the joint until it is seen to melt, pushing the joint surfaces together, and then applying the glued paper strips to hold the joint together. The paper strips are sealed in place with the hot iron. The sealing is immediate after which the hot iron should be removed. Keep the iron moving at all times. Do not burn the paper with an iron that is too hot!

If you use adhesive tape to first temporarily hold the ribs together in position (it should not be necessary if the ribs fit well) then it will have to be removed before that section of the rib joint can be properly glued together - as you work your way along the joint starting at the neck block end.

faggiuols - 11-24-2014 at 11:50 AM

very clear Jdowning!
thanks

faggiuols - 11-25-2014 at 05:54 AM

hello Samir
with horror
I found that you had seen very well, light comes through between the ribs.
is something infinitesimal but it comes through!!!
what I have to do?
I have remedy or i must remove the ribs? I can heat the glue only at that point and tighten best the ribs?
thanks so much

SamirCanada - 11-25-2014 at 07:47 AM

that's unfortunate my friend but not all is lost. In most cases it can be rectified. Don't be so hard on yourself its your first oud!

if you use the light along the whole rib, is this only a small section where light comes through or is it along the whole rib? if its only a small section it can be fixed. if its along the whole length of the rib, I would make a new rib that matches the first one.

So the first thing to do is in the future make sure the ribs match without light showing before you glue them.

to fix this situation, you can try to apply a bit of water or slightly diluted hot glue to that area and reheat the joint, once the glue gets warm squeeze the joint together and see if it closes. If it does that's great news the joint will be ok.

if it doesn't close properly it means that your ribs don't match exactly, you can fill the gap with a mixture of rosewood dust and glue. you can make that rosewood dust yourself using sandpaper from a piece of your own rosewood. the colour will match exactly that way.

don't sweat it too much, its common to find ouds where there are small gaps in the ribs but you don't want to have very many. Remember, at the end you will apply paper soaked in hide glue from the inside and you will also fill those cracks with hide glue.

jdowning - 11-25-2014 at 08:49 AM

If the gap is very fine - as it would seem to be - then the best plan would be to apply a little moisture, reheat the joint, press it together and clamp until the glue has cured as Samir suggests. If the gap is very fine, however, you will not be able to work fresh hot hide glue into the joint and it will not be drawn in by capilliary action either. This way you will just be reactivating the glue that you put into the joint originally which is OK.

A great part of the strength of a finished bowl comes from the interior rib joint reinforcement anyway so a small dry joint area - while it should be avoided - will not have disastrous consequences.
Note also that the varnish that is applied to finish a bowl also acts like an adhesive and most likely will soak into any fine cracks to fill and bond them together in the absence of glue

Note that the reason for using contrasting coloured lines between the ribs is not just decorative but to disguise any slight irregularities in the rib joints that would surely be evident without the lines. This makes the job of bowl making easier particularly in the case of bowls that are not of a perfect semicircle in section (like most lute bowls) where every rib is of a different geometry to its neighbour.

faggiuols - 11-25-2014 at 09:36 AM

thanks Samir and Jdowning
tonight I try to take a picture in the light between the ribs and tomorrow I will post it.
unfortunately I do not know if under the paper there are other points where the light comes through, I do not think and I hope not.

visible is only a tiny point where the light comes through exactly where Samir saw.

thanks for your suggestions.

before I try to paste back the rib in that point by following your advice.

tonight I will work in my workshop and tomorrow i will post the results.

thanks a lot

faggiuols - 11-26-2014 at 12:27 AM

here is the image. Unfortunately, the photo is very blurry.
seems a gap greater than it is.
I proceeded as follows.
-I wet the joint with a few drops of water;
- I warmed up the joint with iron;
then I looked to see if the light comes through and it seemed not.
then I put a piece of paper and glue I heated with iron.
if the operation went well I will see him when the bowl is over.
if it is not done well I will use the sawdust rosewood with glue!
hopefully good.
in any case still I'm studying a system to tighten the rib during the first placement.

in the images the light comes through before;

thanks

[file]33487[/file]

jdowning - 11-26-2014 at 05:06 AM

Glad it worked as planned - the fact that it can be reconstituted with moisture and heat is one important aspect of using hide glue when assembling an instrument.

Note that shining a light behind a joint to identify any irregularities is a very severe test - it makes any slight discrepancy look a lot worse than it really is. If you proceed to make each joint bit by bit seeing the glue remelt with heat application before pushing the joint faces together and then holding the joint surfaces together until the glue has fully cured - by glued paper strips, adhesive tape or whatever - you should have no trouble with dry, unglued joint sections irrespective of any slight irregularities (that would be filled with glue as part of the process).

It would have to be a huge flaw in a joint to allow filling with glue and rosewood sawdust!

faggiuols - 11-26-2014 at 06:05 AM

Quote:

it makes any slight discrepancy look a lot worse than it really is

in fact if Samir did not notified me it, I would not have noticed the imperfection.
But in the future I will always use the lamp during the bonding of the ribs so that I can immediately see any errors before pasting definitely.

thanks for help

faggiuols - 11-28-2014 at 02:31 AM

new update.
yesterday with a technical viewed on the internet, converted by my, I installed two new ribs.
bonding seems fine.
the technique is some pieces of wood tied down and pulled high by laces. better to see the photos that explain in words.
after stopping the rib in the right place I proceeded to paste glue paper.
all right!
only in a point positioning does not seem well executed.
some pictures ..

faggiuols - 11-28-2014 at 02:33 AM

some other image.
I believe that the joint on the neck is defective for the presence of too much glue of the previous gluing of the rib 1.

faggiuols - 12-30-2014 at 02:48 AM

Hello everyone!
an update on my work.
are always struggling with my oud ..
many difficulties, but the work draws to better.
I understood how to fit well the ribs!
the light does not come through.
here's some update image.

[file]33920[/file] [file]33922[/file]

faggiuols - 12-30-2014 at 02:49 AM

I started to clean the glue surface.
I know that it was wrong and that this work must be done at the end.
I was impatient.
could be a problem?
I think, however, that the work is coming along well!

Microber - 12-30-2014 at 03:45 AM

Nice Faggiuols.
Thanks for sharing.

Robert

SamirCanada - 12-30-2014 at 07:16 AM

you can start cleaning up from now. not a problem as far as I am concerned.

looks really good! keep going.

Also. Buon Natale!

faggiuols - 12-31-2014 at 09:27 AM

you can start cleaning up from now. not a problem as far as I am concerned.

looks really good! keep going.

Also. Buon Natale!

thanks Samir.

Merry Christmas to you and to you I wish good year !!

faggiuols - 12-31-2014 at 09:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Microber

Nice Faggiuols.
Thanks for sharing.

Robert

thanks to you also Robert !!

faggiuols - 1-14-2015 at 12:52 AM

Hello everyone
with great difficulty I got to the rib # 14.
I attach some pictures of the current state.
5 ribs in the end !!

Fritz - 1-14-2015 at 04:32 AM

Hello everyone
with great difficulty I got to the rib # 14.
I attach some pictures of the current state.
5 ribs in the end !!

Hey faggiuols

I see you made a very good job... the bowl looks great... with the thin lines between the dark wood... this gives some kind of special to every Oud made of dark wood.

The next days I will begin with the next Oud... also made of very dark rosewood, with the lines made of cypres... very fine (and nice smelling) wood. I hoipe, this bowl will be looking as great as yours !

Keep going on with patience :-)

Patence is the key to happyness !

Best wishes

Fritz

faggiuols - 1-14-2015 at 06:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fritz

Hello everyone
with great difficulty I got to the rib # 14.
I attach some pictures of the current state.
5 ribs in the end !!

hello Fritz
thank you for your compliment !! coming from you is worth double!
.. But don't do now your oud rosewood similar to mine ...
or put images in forum between at least three months, because if I see your work, my oud flies out the window before being finished !!!..
and I live on the eighth floor !!!
thanks

faggiuols - 1-15-2015 at 01:54 AM

I'm wondering which tool I can use to measure the thickness of the bowl during sanding that will begin in a few weeks?
I know that I have to bring the thickness of about 1.5 mm, but what kind of caliber you use?
(do not spend a lot ..)
thanks to those who want me to answer

SamirCanada - 1-15-2015 at 05:46 AM

Use your intuition

I am sure there is a way to measure it but there is no real need to do that.

Really, when you are scraping at the end, you just want to remove the square edges which happen when the ribs meet eachother. when it starts to appear round and smooth you stop scraping.

faggiuols - 1-15-2015 at 06:32 AM

Use your intuition

thanks Samir
I imagined that we proceed in this way.
thanks for the clarification.
thanks Samir
I imagined that we proceed in this way.
thanks for the clarification.
about the interior is only important to clean the need to apply the strip of paper glued?

SamirCanada - 1-15-2015 at 07:21 AM

some people scrape the interior very clean and some others leave it as is. It depends on how much you like scraping and how much you think people will look inside.

it has been debated that a smooth interior projects better sound... I think its a waste of time.

faggiuols - 1-15-2015 at 08:04 AM

thanks samir
you're always kind

faggiuols - 5-4-2015 at 12:08 AM

Goodmornig everyone

I'm not lost ..
I am still at work! too quiet perhaps but always at work!
I am about to finish the bowl and I will post the images soon.
Meanwhile, I am preparing a decoration to the bottom of the bowl to
cover imperfections of the arrivals of the ribs.
some image. I have yet to perfect the lines with a scalpel and fill in the gaps of the design with glue and dust rosewood!
I took it from the drawing images from the internet. I hope the author of the design hasn't a problem.

faggiuols - 5-4-2015 at 12:10 AM

some other image

faggiuols - 5-4-2015 at 12:12 AM

the end... (front and back)
the technique is correct?
thank you all!

2015-05-03 14.57.24.jpg - 322kB

faggiuols - 5-10-2015 at 11:27 PM

Goodmorning everyone
here is the progress of the piece ..
here before grouting with glue and dust rosewood ...

faggiuols - 5-10-2015 at 11:28 PM

and here is the final result ...

faggiuols - 5-17-2015 at 11:15 PM

2 ribs at the end!

faggiuols - 7-23-2015 at 03:14 AM

-1!
glued the penultimate rib!
with fatigue and extreme slowness I'm coming to the end of the bowl!

faggiuols - 7-23-2015 at 03:15 AM

-1!
glued the penultimate rib!
with fatigue and extreme slowness I'm coming to the end of the bowl!

[file]35974[/file] [file]35976[/file]

SamirCanada - 7-23-2015 at 04:46 AM

Bravo!

looking great

faggiuols - 7-23-2015 at 06:34 AM

thank's friend! soon I will post the final images of the bowl ..

Hibari-San - 7-23-2015 at 11:36 AM

Wow ! That looks awesome !!

Did you finally made all ribs with the heat gun ?
Since I saw it standing next to the bowl I was happy to see that I'm not the only one,
using a flat iron for the bending.

Nice work, keep it up !

faggiuols - 7-23-2015 at 11:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Hibari-San

Wow ! That looks awesome !!

Did you finally made all ribs with the heat gun ?
Since I saw it standing next to the bowl I was happy to see that I'm not the only one,
using a flat iron for the bending.

Nice work, keep it up !

thanks Hibari-San!
yes, i did it!

faggiuols - 7-23-2015 at 11:42 PM

Yesterday I cleaned the bowl ..

faggiuols - 8-16-2015 at 11:37 PM

Good morning friends.
I finally completed the bowl and I upload pictures final. still missing grouting decoration back. I think it is coming pretty nice although not without several flaws!

faggiuols - 8-16-2015 at 11:48 PM

well...
Now I come to describe the problems!
when I cut the last rib, I cut it too close and now the bowl does not close the profile. The photo I uploaded explains better than many words.
what do I have to do?
what do you recommend? I do not know really how to solve this problem.
the ideas that came to be:
1 - smooth horizontal a few millimeters around the oud to commissioning profile quota.
2 - smooth sloping up to the elimination of the defect.
add a prosthesis to cover the gap it seems a dangerous thing for the subsequent fragility of the point.
the first is likely to lower the decoration back too close to the edge below with aesthetic effect bad!
me what you tell me ??
you have any advice for me?
I am desperate enough !!!

[file]36342[/file]

jdowning - 8-17-2015 at 03:24 AM

Under the circumstances I would do a patch repair on the rib.
Select a strip of the rib material - ideally a piece with grain pattern closely matching that of the rib - the strip will be oversize, longer and wider than needed to fill the gap. The strip must be made wide enough (say 1 or 2 cm wide) to ease handling and shaping without flexing too much.
Hot bend the strip to the rib profile and then concentrate on fitting the strip to the rib making the joint as perfect as possible little by little, by trial and error.
Glue the strip to the rib and, after the glue has cured, re-level that section of the edge of the bowl - as you would when trimming and levelling the edge of the bowl after removal from the mold.. The finished patched area will not be fragile and anyway will be further supported by the sound board edge/edge tiles/banding.
Just take your time to make a close fitted well glued joint for the patch and only you will know that it is there once the oud is finished!
Good luck.

faggiuols - 8-17-2015 at 03:30 AM

Under the cicumstances I would do a patch repair on the rib.
Select a strip of the rib material - ideally a piece with grain pattern closely matching that of the rib - the strip will be oversize, longer and wider than needed to fill the gap.
Hot bend the strip to the rib profile and then concentrate on fitting the strip to the rib making the joint as perfect as possible little by little, by trial and error.
Glue the strip to the rib and, after the glue has cured, re-level that section of the edge of the bowl - as you would when trimming and levelling the edge of the bowl after removal from the mold.. The finished patched area will not be fragile and anyway will be further supported by the sound board edge/edge tiles/banding.
Just take your time to make a close fitted well glued joint for the patch and only you will know that it is there once the oud is finished!
Good luck.

thank you very much Mr. Downing ...!
Now I try immediately.

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 03:51 AM

While I try to solve the problem, here are some more images.
before, the pegbox at an early stage

[file]36352[/file] [file]36354[/file]

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 04:00 AM

and the soundboard...
the top is slightly "maschiata".
I do not know if there is an English term for defining small alterations of the wood grain I cercarto highlight the macro pictures.
I bought the soundboard directly in Val di Fiemme last summer but forcing the family to a detour of three hours from the way for our holiday ..

[file]36356[/file] [file]36358[/file] [file]36360[/file]

[file]36362[/file]

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 04:06 AM

I post a picture of a soundboard very "maschiata".
I know that this feature of wood is only nell'abete of Val di Fiemme.

SamirCanada - 8-18-2015 at 05:09 AM

My dear faggiols,
before you do a repair a slight dip like this at the level of the bridge is desirable. Please read some other posts and see for yourself especially Manol's oud construction.

it could be possible to plane slightly in the front of the rib near the neck block. The gap between the flat surface on the lowest rib should be around 7mm.

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 05:28 AM

My dear faggiols,
before you do a repair a slight dip like this at the level of the bridge is desirable. Please read some other posts and see for yourself especially Manol's oud construction.

it could be possible to plane slightly in the front of the rib near the neck block. The gap between the flat surface on the lowest rib should be around 7mm.

thank's my friend.
my gap is approximately 4/5 mm.
Now I look for the topic that you advise me!
in fact I am in crisis ..

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 05:31 AM

Please read some other posts and see for yourself especially Manol's oud construction.

could you tell me exactly where I find this topic?
thank you very much Samir

SamirCanada - 8-18-2015 at 05:34 AM

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12883#pid87...

just 1 quick example, if you search "soundboard dip" you will find many related observations.

faggiuols - 8-18-2015 at 05:36 AM