andy-54 - 1-5-2010 at 10:37 AM
Ok, I'm a beginner! Need some advice if anyone can help.
[As a reasonably accomplished musician - guitar, banjo, bouzouki etc - in a number of styles]
My wife & I make trips to the Middle East [she is a keen Raqs Shaqi dancer] and on a recent visit we were sitting in a restaurant in Marakech
listening to an excellent oud player. "You could play that" she said, to which I replied "buy me one and I can try". Result - oud as Christmas
present!
My problem is the old one of not knowing if it is me or the instrument - it doesn't sound like the ouds I have heard, and there are some problems with
it. I believe my wife paid around 200 Euros for this and I wonder if we were ripped off.
Problems that I seek advice on are as follows:-
Three of the tuning pegs regularly slip - is this common? I have swapped some around since I have two spare and I am playing Arabic - G-A-D-G-C - but
have not completely solved the problem. Should is maybe sand down the offending pegs slightly, or open up the inner hole? It is quite obvious visually
in comparison to the more reliable pegs/holes, which is why I am wondering if what we have here is a "tourist trap / hang on your wall" type of
instrument.
As mentioned I am playing Arabic tuning, but have two additional pegs. However, if I was going to restring for Turkish tuning the neck does not have
alternative slots cut. The bridge does have one additional string slot above the top string.
The A/G strings which are wound produce a reasonable oud-like sound. The top three which are nylon/gut are very dead, even when hit with tremolo with
the risha [or which more anon] Can anyone recommend more "ringy" strings I can source on the internet. As mentioned, I am used to playing instruments
with far more string tension so hardness is not a problem.
Finally - risha. Currently using a cable tie. Where can I experiment with different thicknesses. With all my other instruments I am a finger player so
this is very alien to me. Personally I find the sound I can get with my fingers to be quite good, but have noted the threads on this topic so am
trying to learn it "properly".
Grateful for any input. I am miles away from any other players so dependent on the internet / experimentation for this. As I sit tonight on the West
Coast of Scotland watching the snow fall I feel this is a bizarre but good use of the internet.
Thanks and greetings to all.
PS - The oud is marked inside in Arabic. There is an e-mail reference - MSKHLIFAH@MAKTOOB.COM. I have searched for anything further on this without
success - anyone know the maker?
Danielo - 1-5-2010 at 11:08 AM
Welcome to this forum Andy and happy new year!
First, some pictures will help a lot to know whether your oud is a descent instrument.
About the pegs, this is annoying but usually not a big problem. You can try to put some dry soap+ chalk on the pegs it helps a lot. Swapping the
pegs may not be a good idea as in principle they are custom fit to the holes they are intended for. Anyway if the oud worth it you can ask a luthier
to take care of this.
DO NOT use turkish tuning on your oud, it is not designed to handle the extra tension.. it may destroy the soundboard!
Having 12 holes/pegs is usefull if you want to use the Egyptian tuning which is
FF AA DD gg cc f'f'
For the strings, Labella are quite ringing and reasonably cheap. Pyramid oranges label are also supposed to be good and not expensive but I did not
try them.
Don't worry about your risha, many top players are actually using cable ties 
After some sanding they become very capable rishas, but on the soft side. You may want to use some stiffer ones.. Pyramid makes those, you can find
them on internet string shops. Getting used to play with the risha takes indeed some time but this is the key for getting a true oud sound
Good luck !
Dan
Danielo - 1-5-2010 at 11:19 AM
PS: your oud was actually made in the Khalifeh factory in Damascus.
Unfortunately they are more in the tourist/hanging on a wall category but some of us started with those and they are playable and after some
adjustments not so bad. Just search on the forum (try also with Khalifa) for some info.
Look e.g. at this thread:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=4312
Hatem_Afandi - 1-6-2010 at 10:30 AM
Welcome aboard, Andy!
For slipping pegs, I suggest that you buy vilolin peg paste or oil from any violin shop or maybe from online.
Below is an example:
http://www.theviolinman.co.uk/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=Pr...
I agree with Daniel about the Egyptian tuning. If you apply too much tension through higher notes, it will damage your oud. If it is an Arabic tuning
oud, it is better to stick to Arabic tuning.
You can get excellent quality risha's from Jameel's website. Jameel also sells LaBella Strings at the best price available online.
http://www.khalafoud.com/strings.htm
http://www.khalafoud.com/picks.htm
Some oudists prefere Aquila low tension strings too.
Good luck & Happy New Year,
Hatem
andy-54 - 2-12-2010 at 09:56 AM
Thankyou Hatem & Danielo for your advice.
Seems we may have bought a bit of a tourist-trap instrument, which annoying alhough I have not shared this with my wife out of consideration to her
generosity. She may suspect, as she says it doesn't sound quite right - I tell her it is my playing.
I followed advice re peg paste and although this has not eliminated the problems they have improved slightly. I have some LaBella strings on order but
there is something like a six week delay - does anyone know of a supplier [preferably UK] who can deliver faster?
Lastly - the sound. It is quite flat and doesn't "ring" properly on the top three strings which are gut/nylon [there is a better truer tone from the
wound strings although they buzz on the fretboard if I go too far up the neck]. Any suggestions to improve the tone would be gratefully received.
Based as I am on the West Coast of Scotland [as I write I see the sun disappearing behind the Isle of Arran and the Mull of Kintyre] there aren't many
opportunities to watch others and learn from them. So any suggestions as to UK contacts or other online resources would be welcome.
Obviously I have found this excellent site Mike!
Thanks to all and it is great to be an extremely incompetent member of this little community.
Aymara - 2-13-2010 at 12:31 AM
Hi Andy,
too bad, that you didn't come to the forums before your wife bought an oud for you ... sorry to say that, but an oud for 200$ is only usable for
decoration, as we usually say.
A good instrument costs a minimum of 500$.
Regarding the tuning problem ... if the pegs still slip, try putting a bit of chalk above the violin soap. After changing the strings, the sound might
be a bit better, but don't expect too much.
If you're interested in a good oud for a reasonable price check THIS as an example.
Regarding your question about string shops ... maybe Matthias can help?
gerreccia - 3-4-2010 at 09:29 AM
Hi Andy,
I'm Eric, on the East coast of Scotland......near Edinburgh. I bought an oud too at the end of 2009.
I have questions about strings and tensions. I think tension might solve some of my picking problems and I think I have really cheap strings.
The best plastic I've found for a risha so far is a cut up organ donor card. The thin plastic makes for ease of tremolo but it sounds thin. I have it
superglued to some thicker plastic from a bit of B&Q shelf binding which sounds good for slower picking.
Maybe violin rosin would help your slippy pegs.
My email is ericgrace77@yahoo.co.uk and I have a webpage with some oud tracks and videos at. http://gerreccia.yolasite.com/oud-things.php
It's marvelous instrument and it's nice to hear of someone in Scotland with the same thing.
Eric
danieletarab - 3-6-2010 at 09:51 AM
Welcome!
yes, as the other told you, 200 euro is really too little for oud, even if I started with a 150 euro oud bought in a shop in Italy!!
But the problem with oud is that when the oud is not decent it sounds like an horrible instrument\
Main problem with extremely cheap oud is tuning\ I don't think you will be able to solve this problem on your oud.
Buy your strings in the MATTHIAS WAGNER website: he's a very good dealer and quite fast\ you find also risha in his shop.
I will briefly tell you my experience with oud.
Like you, I used to play many instruments (irish and greek bouzouki, satz, bass, double bass, and finally oud).
Oud was the last one. While I was getting into oud I understood that it's a different kind of instrument: you can't use oud like a secondary
instrument\ you can do that with bouzouki, mandolin, guitar etc because if you can play a stringed instrument it won't be difficult to achieve nice
sound on those instruments, even if you play simple things.
Oud is a quite jelaous instrument\ it needs much care, its very very sensible to weather conditions and you must be quite concentrated playng it\ I
find difficult performing a gig with bouzouki and then hanging the oud to play one piece.
Oud needs an "oud mood"(and lots of exercizing) to be played.
Moreover, its peculiarity is that it may sound as much beautiful as horrible\ it depends on how you "touch" it.
That's why (assuming that oud is the most intresting and exiting instrument in the world!!) I decided to focus completely on the oud.
I still play other instruments, but if in one day I study3 hours, I use all of these hours for the oud.
I finish with a suggestion: with my little experience I can tell you that the best "cheap" ouds are made by the turkish luthier ALI' NASIDIR (Deniz
Musik). They are extremely good for their price\ You can get good oud, with beatiful sound and good playability for 500 euro, and sometimes even
less.
Anyway, all his instruments are good instruments\ it doesn't make touristic stuff\ He also make arabic ouds since he used to work in Kuwait.
If you want to get into oud, find his website and order one of his oud and you'll find that there will be an incredible and huge difference between
your 200 euro oud and his 400 euro oud\
A friend of mine, a good player, makes lots of concerts with a 500 euro Nasidir oud.
Obviously they are not perfect or extremely good, but if I consider the price they are amazing.
Anyway, he also make more expensive ouds that for sure are very good (I never tried them).
Welcome among us!
Daniele