sazmakernovice - 2-13-2010 at 05:35 PM
Hello everybody,
This is my first post.
I am trying to build a saz and need some advice on how
to do the neck correctly. I know this is an oud forum, but
I hope somebody will be able to help me.
A while ago I built a saz(I already had a body for it). When
I finished the neck of the saz I put a straight edge on it and
it was completely straight, no gaps. So I thought ok that
will be perfect, wrong!.
I put the string on and tried to play. Unfortunately the strings
were touching the lower frets and because of that I could
only get sounds from the middle(neck) up. No sound from
the lower frets.
After some reading on internet I discovered that because
the neck of the baglama has a certain length(also thickness)
it will slightly ''bend'' because of the string pressure.This is why
the strings were touching the frets and I could not get any sound from the lower frets.
A luthier told me that I should leave a gap of 1.5mm from the first fret and this gap should get smaller and smaller, till there is no gap just below
the nut.
Here I try to show what I mean:
Now my question is how do I do this? Making the neck flat is not so difficult, but how do I make this 1.5 mm gap(between straightedge and neck) at the
beginning of the neck which then gets smaller and smaller until there is no gap at the end of the last fret?
I have a no4 and no6 plane.
thank you in advance for any idea/advice/help.
Regards,
SMN
Netherlands
Peyman - 2-13-2010 at 09:47 PM
I've built a few saz, some with flatbacks. I think you might have some quality problems. One is that the wood you used wasn't seasoned or that you
carved the neck too thin (you should shoot for 2.8 - 3 cm and make it taper a bit thinner towards the peghead). You should use well seasoned wood or
try laminating the neck. But you should also make sure you make a good body-neck joint. I use a dovetail but in Turkey they use a wedge joint (they
call it kurt agzi, meaning wolf's mouth). It's more complicated for the building process but makes the neck alignment easier. As a general rule, I
make sure the neck with the fingerboard is in the same plane as the soundboard. This way, you can adjust the action with the bridge even if there is a
minute difference (much easier to make a bridge then try to shave the fingerboard). The action that you're talking about will happen naturally. The
nut should be 1 to 1.5 mm, and the bridge about 4 to 5 mm. Your action will be good this way. I use a flat sanding board to flatten the neck
completely. It takes some patience. This is also a good website to check out for info: http://www.sazadair.com/sazadair/
Check out youtube for videos too. You can see luthiers will plane the soundboard and the neck to have them in the same plane.
Anyway, good luck.
sazmakernovice - 2-13-2010 at 10:34 PM
Hi Peyman,
Thank you for your reply.
I live in the Netherlands, my parents
are from Turkey. So I am Turkish origin. I
do understand Turkish, but reading detailed
information is difficult.
Like you wrote, I did make the body
neck joint by the kurt agzi joint. The joint
was flawless.
The wood I used for the neck was well seasoned
maple straight grained.
I have read the website of Ozay Onal a couple
of times. He too mentions that the neck of the saz
will bend slightly because of string pressure.
Here is a picture of this bending action from his site:
http://www.sazadair.com/sazadair/sap/6.jpg
Mr Onal writes that one technique he learned was, to
divide(in the head) the sap/neck in three. Then you should
lower the first 1/3 of the neck by 1 mm and the last
1/3 by 1mm. This way the bending action of the string will
make the neck completely straight.
http://www.sazadair.com/sazadair/index.php?option=com_content&t...
Yes I can get sounds from the whole neck by sanding/plaining the neck completely flat, but then what happens is
that that the string height is too high in the lower frets. Its difficult playing saz this way. Doing it the way I mentioned in my first post, makes
it possible to decrease the string height to 1.5 mm
or so.
Saygilar,
SMN
Peyman - 2-13-2010 at 10:45 PM
I sent you a u2u.
carpenter - 2-17-2010 at 01:11 PM
I just finished a 3-string, 20" scale, solid-body Telecaster/Sortacaster - very saz-feeling - taking a break from oud building, and laid a slab of
carbon fiber, something like .080" x .5", Superglued into a squeak-fit saw kerf running the length of the neck. It worked out great; the neck is dead
flat under tension and the thing is full of sustain. That might be worth considering in the future; I'm sure pleased. A fingerboard would be
necessary to cover it up ...