spyblaster - 2-22-2010 at 11:34 AM
hi guys
i was thinkin' a lot these days, the great oud player-Naseer Shamma- uses a nylon Raqma on his oud. ive used it myself n the result was great. it
really covers a large part of the sound board n protect it from being scratch by the pick.
i was thinkin'.... while i use the nylon raqma, y should i have the traditional raqma? im ordering a new oud to mr. Sukar n i wanna tell him not to
install any raqma on it. i think its not needed n it really reduces the volume.
as ive heard, the flamenco guitar used to have such a raqma in order to protect the sound board while being tapped(i think the call it golp or sth
like that). but now a days its replaced be the nylon raqma.
i should remind that i use my oud to have a great sound, not to make a great landscape, so i dont care that how it looks.
so what do u think? do u agree with me? shouldnt we replace the traditional raqma with a modern one?
fernandraynaud - 2-22-2010 at 09:05 PM
It would be interesting to hear from more people who have tried taking it off.
I had a dark wood raqma on my Egyptian oud. I am almost ashamed to admit that I didn't notice for a long time that it was fake wood, an
adhesive-backed plastic material with a very convincing wood grain, like a thick vinyl. There must be a heck of a fake oud parts industry. I replaced
it with one I made using cherry veneer finished in shellac. The soundboard was varnished in that common Egyptian kitchen oud way. I should add that
the instrument had a very appealing timbre and I didn't buy it for its rather plebeian looks (including the "MOP" bowl).
I took the varnish down to a minimum with steel wool, which now looks and feels much like French Polish shellac. This is very personal, but my
impression was that the timbre improved when I took the plastic raqma off. Steel-wooling the varnish on the soundboard made a huge difference in the
appearance, and I think some difference in the timbre. Gluing on the cherry raqma with liquid hide glue didn't hurt the tone. I knew I could always
unglue it so I wasn't worried. As the glue set I thought the timbre deepened, as if that brittle layer added something.
The instrument has really come into its own, a combination of factors no doubt, including being played a lot. The raqma sits at a critical spot
between the bridge and the main soundhole. It's not impossible it would affect the timbre. It's interesting that the traditional raqma is seldom
shaped or positioned so as to best protect the soundboard from the risha.
So this is hardly a scientific test, but it's possible a traditional wood raqma does serve a purpose that a plastic one cannot offer. In any case I'm
quite sure I wouldn't put down anything made of plastic on a soundboard.
spyblaster - 2-23-2010 at 01:06 AM
thanx for ur comment, but i said nylon raqma not plastic raqma. what Naseer shamma uses n what is used on flamenco guitar.
fernandraynaud - 2-23-2010 at 04:19 PM
Yes, yes, nylon is a polymer, a soft one too! The way I see it, anything that is not brittle absorbs more energy. The reason shellac is a good
finish on soundboards is because it is brittle, it's crunchy, it has a stiff array molecular structure, it does not cushion and absorb the sound.
Urethanes and gum varnishes are not good, they retain too much flexibility. I don't think I would ever dream of gluing a piece of nylon or vinyl or
polyethylene on a soundboard. You may as well glue on a piece of rubber. Of course thin nylon may not have a huge effect, but why do it at all? It
cannot help but deaden the sound. The wood is more beautiful anyway.
How is that transparent sheet of plastic on his oud attached? I don't think nylon can be quite that transparent.
Try this: if you take a piezo sensor and attach it to a soundboard through a layer of vinyl or nylon, you will get a very different sound than if you
use a layer of hard wood, or other materials that are not "gummy". Of the materials that have a lot of air in the matrix, cork is stiff and passes
vibration, while foam rubber is "gummy" and vibration-absorbing. That's why I think that Mr Shamma's taste notwithstanding, I would go with a very
traditional wood raqma.
spyblaster - 2-23-2010 at 10:49 PM
"but why do it at all?"
coz u have some limits in using the wooden raqma. it cant be very big. it cant cover the required surface of the sound board. specially while playing
rhythm-chords. u may hit the places not covered by the wooden raqma. maybe its not needed for monophonic pieces, but if u play such pieces that naseer
shamma plays, the sound board will be scratched soon.
i guess its the special raqma which is used for flamenco guitar. of course my teacher recommended me not to use those raqmas n offered me the normal
sticky nylons. it can be easily removed. its thin n light.
after all, i havent ever tried the nylon raqma without the wooden one, n i have no idea which one reduces the sound volume more(i must mention that
the nylon one is very very thiner) but even if we suppose that the nylon reduces more, dosent it worth to reduce the volume a little but keep the
sound board unscratched?(specially on a concert oud)
here u can compare my oud n barbat, the Barbat s still without the nylon raqma in that photo.
fernandraynaud - 2-24-2010 at 02:39 AM
Your instruments are beautiful, play them in good spirit! You know, if these transparent plastics are so thin, then why not have the oud made how Mr
Sukar best designs them, wood raqma and all, he is a smart man, and you can then lightly stick a very thin protective film on top?
You can cut out the shape so it doesn't block holes or be visible and attach it with weak double-sided tape. If you can hear a serious change, don't
use it. But if it's thin enough it won't make a big difference, and you can always take it off when it wears, IF the adhesive is very gentle.
If the adhesive is strong it can gum up the soundboard - it can penetrate and become hard to remove. I may be old-fashioned, but I would never risk
this on a good oud. And Sukar generally likes to keep his soundboards natural. A thick plastic strongly attached I would never want.
I have used shellac (in alcohol) on intreated soundboards, it makes a very subtle and beautiful "French" polish that keeps the raw wood clean and
protects it mechanically a little, for sure without having any bad effect on the sound. Maybe that's protection enough for you if you put on enough
layers?
I would worry about any self adhesive plastic unless the soundboard is already treated with something very smooth from which the stuff can peel right
off. I have had some horrible scares where I thought a label or tape would be OK to attach a pickup, and then had a panic when it was hurting the wood
or leaving residue!
I think we can agree that these plastics are temporary like condoms and not very beautiful? They are like a child's napkin or bib so he doesn't get
food all over the kitchen! I would rather train myself not to hit the soundboard too hard than stick junk on a good instrument.
spyblaster - 2-24-2010 at 11:29 AM
thanx, i cant understand this part. would u pls explain more? i cant understand what u mean "if these transparent plastics are so thin, then why not
have the oud made how Mr Sukar best designs them, wood raqma and all, he is a smart man, and you can then lightly stick a very thin protective film on
top?"
if "the shape" is the wooden raqma, well thats what i have done few days ago. the nylon, plastic(whatever) i use is sticky its self n doesnt need any
tape. it can also be removed easily without makin' damage(ive trid on varnished sound board). of course u can use the the guitars raqma which is
permanent n cannot be removed(as i know).
well i dont agree that they are like what u said. i have no problem with that. my teacher says that the oud will be ugly without the wooden raqma n
says i should keep it, but i dont care. i think its not needed if i use the plastic one.
fernandraynaud - 2-24-2010 at 05:20 PM
Dear Spy,
Of course if you like it, use it. But you were asking for opinion, and I gave you mine. I agree with your teacher, not just for looks. It's how ouds
have been made for a good while. I'm not sure I understand exactly why, since it doesn't fully protect the soundboard. When I'm not sure, I think
maybe they have a good reason, so I would keep the wooden one. If your self-adhesive plastic comes off easily, no harm done.