Danielo - 6-24-2010 at 12:03 PM
crazy ! 
Jason - 6-24-2010 at 07:02 PM
I understand the point you're making but it's worth reiterating just how inexpensive top level ouds really are. We can spend less than $5,000 and get
the best instruments in the world.
I'm not aware of any other instrument where that is the case.
Brian Prunka - 6-25-2010 at 09:07 AM
If you search auctions that have ended, the highest price anyone has paid for a vintage guitar recently was just over $10,000. Still a lot of money,
but that's a more realistic gauge of what these instruments are selling for.
I'm guessing that some of these instruments could potentially fetch around $50,000 (maybe in a better economy!), but lately no one is paying that
much.
Jason's right, though, vintage guitars or luthier-built handmade guitars are generally in the $6000-$10,000 range, with top luthiers getting even
more. High-end ouds are still a good deal overall.
Forget about violins and cellos . . .
Danielo - 6-26-2010 at 11:41 AM
You are very right, it was my point... the downside is that it will inevitably drives the price up, and good ouds may become out of reach for many
people in the very country that they are from.
But still how a factory-made Gibson, 40 years old, can cost more than the finest Abdo Nahat plus the finest Manol together?
fernandraynaud - 6-26-2010 at 02:20 PM
This vintage-mania is total horse-manure. I have a 1960's Fender very vintage Precision Bass, yet my favorite bass by far says "Made in China", cost
$139 + $25 shipping + a fancy new piezo bridge ($45 on e-bay). Oh, sorry, I forgot the strings.
I also have a 1964 Gibson ES335 that's also considered a marvelous vintage instrument, and it's a nice guitar, but back in the early 70s I had the
neck reworked, better tuners and pickups put on, not because it was defective, but because the original Gibson design could be vastly improved.
I think we can agree that there are three completely different "scales" to expensive instruments: exceptional aesthetics, exceptional
timbre/playability, and exceptional snob appeal. Where these scales each contribute a lot of "points", you get some marvelous and very costly
instruments.
But these scales don't always rise in parallel, and personally I place a positive value on a negative snob appeal,
give me a mass market or Made In China label any day, "there goes the neighborhood" as they say, in other words value decreases by association and
perception, and that's fine with me! Some silly decorations and a ridiculous Gawaret El Fan business card they glued inside an old oud helped me get a
good price on a exceptional-sounding instrument.
Finish? well I can relate to Mehdi Haddab's liking for "Anarchie Givenchy" ...
(interview fantastique) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J4wtJhgXD4
But it's all a matter of how fat the wallet is, and if yours allows it, hallelujah! But if we can save significant money by doing a little touch-up
sanding and polishing, and spending a little "quality time" with an instrument, getting to know it, we should be "happy campers". I've said this
before, and maybe it's just a pet theory, but as I read some posts, I think it bears repeating.
Also let's not forget how much a "Made in Japan" label used to be the kiss of death. Now a "Made in Japan" Fender fetches a premium. And many of the
costly "vintage" ouds are beat-up wrecks that objectively speaking only have great value on the snobbism scale, and on the wall.
As to modern "boutique ouds", it's wonderful what CAD, power tools, lasers (and hacking down the rare old trees) can do. Jameel was able to start from
scratch and make a handful of ouds, every one a gem. Frankly, when I first started looking at ouds, it took me a while to realize how all these things
interacted. The average Arabic oud is not finished to the standards I was used to. Now I have a lot of respect for an oud maker who can turn out a
good-sounding and good-playing oud practically out of pieces of shipping crates, using a saw and a scraper, and leaves it to our neuroses to worry
whether the finish matches our living room furniture
Of course, there is a lot to be said for a happy medium
esteso - 6-27-2010 at 09:37 AM
Hey there fernand, Cool get together last night. It totally rocked meeting some of you Bay Area oudists. And the food was great too. I found my way
home although I'm still baffled why they call it 580 W. when it's headed N> I know .......... eventually it's W. Anyway, nothing that a U-turn
doesn't solve!
As far as the vintage craze goes, I agree with you mostly but wouldn't characterize it as TOTAL horse pucky. For instance I've played and owned a '69
Martin that killed. (the last year they used Brazilian Rosewood) I've also heard many early Martins that just where fabulous and worth whatever money
they asked because you just can't get a modern one to sound like that.
I also happen to own a '47 Domingo Esteso flamenco which cannot be beat. I'll be selling that someday for somewhere in the neighborhood of $20k. Is it
worth it? You betchya. Nothing like it.
Now the vintage craze in the electric market might be somewhat different in that those instruments are more easily duplicated fairly cheaply. And so,
in that case, snob appeal works it's magic to increase the value exponentially.
But in the end it's all about ...... Are you a player or a collector or somewhere in between? PS love the line about wanting our instruments to be as
well finished as our furniture. So true. Gotta get over that.
Cheers