Where to get a Sukar model 212 or 213 ?

Quote: Originally posted by spyros mesogeia

Paraskeva egw 8a sou synistousa kati poly kalytero,egw eixa ayta ta montela kai mou ebgalan problhma. Polla xairetismata apo Amerikh

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

I think you mean the 211 and 212, they are the same, prime spruce soundboard, three oval sound holes with no shamsa, a dark walnut bowl and neck, with a long Walnut of Lions fingerboard, ebony pegs, and a two wood pegbox. Only the design of the ribs is different, 212 has the narrow ribs with separators. The most professionally desirable Sukars I have been repeatedly told, are the 211, 212, and the 14/214 made of black Walnut of Lions, with a deeper tone. The 213 is a different animal altogether. Round sound holes, shamsa on the small ones. I have not played one. Sukar seems to change designs faster than his catalogue, I've heard the bowl is ebony, but unconfirmed. The closest is one selling here: I would prefer it if it was from EU. Since I have to pay customs for this. The price will go much higher http://cgi.ebay.com/Syrian-Oud-w-hard-case-/180494675519?cmd=ViewIt...

The 211, 212 and 14 cost about the same, the labor on the 212 is most intensive, the black walnut on the 14 is the costliest material, so it varies with the vendor, but it's roughly similar. I don't remember for sure, but i think the 213 was'nt all that different. Of course as you buy closer to Sukar's workshop, you pay less. With the hardcase and shipping, the average price i've seen is lower than $995 + $80 shipping.

Btw, the bowl of the only model 14 I've had my hands on was finished with an opaque black lacquer that was too thin. The black walnut is "oily", so the finish also adheres poorly. I dont care for the result,.. so I'm creeping towards refinishing the bowl. I have seen photos of model 14s that suggest a different finish, a translucent dark varnish. It sounds and plays incredible, either way, but watch the finish. It feels heavier and more massive than a 212 or Model 1, although dimensions are identical.

Most Sukars don't stand up to boutique ouds like Ghadbans in detailing and finish. I see a bit of touch-up as part of getting to know the instrument, e.g. coating the soundboard with egg-white or French polish, cleaning up the occasional sticky peg, etc. The 212 has a different sound, and is I think the most gorgeous Sukar model. My wife loves the black 14, but I find the 212 quite stunning. I don't personally care for round sound holes, inlays and decorations. Inlaid necks wear unpredictably. The dark woods are best, on bowl and neck.

Sukar 212

My model 14 bowl is done in opaque lacquer black. Maybe others are done in translucent dark. If you look on the inside, you can see the true color. Of course I cannot be 100 % sure until I scrape it, but I doubt he's dyed the inside. I would say there are 3 types of walnut he uses.

There's a reddish wood that he uses on the inexpensive ones. I believe it's a walnut, he lists it as walnut. He stains it deeper reddish brown on the outside, almost mahogany, but on the inside of the bowl you can see its true shade. My Model 1 bowl is entirely made of it, like on a 201. Most Model 1s alternate this walnut with beech: جوز مع زان 15 ضلع

Then there's a second type, a greyish walnut like on the 212. It's heavier and harder than the first. On the inside you can see it's quite different from the first type. Sorry, there's glue and sawdust on this one.

The top layer fingerboard and the outer pegbox layer on the 212 are made of a seemingly more dense, darker, wood. You can see the 2 layers on the side of the 212 neck. That is what the whole 14 is made of. It's the third type, it's what he calls "walnut of lions".

It seems distinct from, and heavier than, the second wood, as used on the 212 bowl. It's possible that the 212 and the 14 walnut are different pieces of the same general type, on the photo it's hard to be sure, but the 212's seems less dense, a bit lighter and less purple in color, and the 14 oud feels quite a bit heavier than the 212, though the dimensions are identical. The 14 bowl is described as a single dark walnut: جوز اسود بدون خط . It seems that the whole neck of the 14 is also made of a single piece of wood, it doesn't even seem like there's a veneer wrapping.

Of course the black "piano" finish is irrelevant. Still my impression is that the 14 does use a select and very dense "walnut of lions", and that it's the main reason for its unique timbre. The 212 sounds very different, brighter, though no structural difference is obvious between the two. I'm coating the soundboards with egg white and sanding off the fingerboard varnish tonight, then I'm going to play these for a while before embarking on refinishing the 14's bowl. It's fascinating having 3 Sukars on hand. I'll post more discoveries I'm sure.

Model 1 ------------- Model 212 -------------- Model 14 ---------------- Model 212 neck

That's how Sukar describes the bowl on the 14, I meant as solid walnut with no spacers (whatever they are called) such as are used on the 212. I'm just quoting the spec, and Systran. I love "walnut of lions" Is that exactly "black walnut"? Is that a variety we can get here?

BTW, he only provides specs on the Model 14 and the Model 1 and maybe one more. If you know where to find more data, pls advise.

The pegbox on the Model 1 is solid, made from the same reddish wood as the bowl it seems. The pegs are maybe olive wood, or some other light colored wood, with a 15:1 taper, a simple shape and finished with black paint.

The pegbox on the Model 14 is a solid piece of a very light colored (and hard) wood with a pronounced grain. The outer wall is polished and finished with black lacquer, the inner wall is roughly hewn and unfinished. Geko told me it's a very specific wood Sukar uses for the pegboxes on the high-end ouds. The pegs are around 30:1, ebony, they look sort of like 50 mm shaft viola pegs with a swiss shape, but they are shaved thinner, tapering from 9 to 7.25 mm instead of 10 to 8.25 mm. The shaft length decreases from 50 mm near the nut to 40 mm at the back.

The pegbox on the Model 212 has an outer wall of dark walnut, but the majority of the wall is the same light wood as on the 14, finished with a golden varnish on top, and unfinished on the inner wall. Same pegs as the Model 14.

sukar 212 and Palmyrami

I just purchased and received a Sukar model 212 from Palmyrami (http://www.palmyrami.com/), for $612.00 plus shipping. The oud was packaged exceptionally well and is absolutely delicious. I will buy from these folks again if I desire another Sukar.

Jack

Quote: Originally posted by jack

I just purchased and received a Sukar model 212 from Palmyrami (http://www.palmyrami.com/), for $612.00 plus shipping. The oud was packaged exceptionally well and is absolutely delicious. I will buy from these folks again if I desire another Sukar. Jack