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Sukar Ouds

alaa93 - 9-8-2010 at 11:13 AM

Hi, I am a new member to the forums and I just got a new sukar oud. I just wanted to let everyone know that you can get an inexpensive sukar oud on alibaba.com from a small company called music corner. The man that you contact sells model 212s for 450 dollars. It's legit because that is where I got my oud from. Just press on the contact button to speak with a man named idder hicham. They ship strait from syria.

fernandraynaud - 9-8-2010 at 02:29 PM

I do wish some of these glowing reports came from people who haven't just materialized out of thin air

Alan-TX - 9-8-2010 at 08:15 PM

You beat me to it fernandraynaud.

alaa93 - 9-9-2010 at 10:46 AM

I am a new member to mikeouds and I didn't come out of thin air. Look me up on youtube and facebook. My name is Alaa Abdulbaki and my youtube account is arabpride93. I bought a sukar oud from this company. I wouldn't waste my time telling you this if it wasn't real.

DoggerelPundit - 9-9-2010 at 03:48 PM

Was it Nasreddin Hoja who said "he who slings mud loses ground"?

fernandraynaud - 9-9-2010 at 04:18 PM

Aw, Dogg, as Hodja said, don't be so hard on yourself !

fernandraynaud - 9-9-2010 at 07:04 PM

:applause:

I friend therefore I am (Amico ergo sum)-- or my name isn't Fernand!

charlie oud - 9-10-2010 at 04:36 AM

My dear fellow forum members please can we at least welcome new members and then discuss whatever.

:wavey:

Welcome to the forum Alaa. Hope you enjoy your Sukar oud and thanks for sharing information.

alaa93 - 9-10-2010 at 11:03 AM

Thank you charlie. That's descent of you. Everyone else has attacked me. Oh and, how else are we supposed to verify our existence on the internet other than by using facebook or youtube? You can check out my videos on youtube. I'm trying to learn the oud but I find it difficult, any advice.

alaa93 - 9-10-2010 at 11:10 AM

All I wanted to do is share this information with other people because I think it is a very good deal. If you don't believe me then it's your loss. I don't appreciate being called a liar.

Brian Prunka - 9-10-2010 at 01:11 PM

Alaa, please do not take offense; no one called you a liar.

Fernand rather politely remarked on how your very first post just happened to be a glowing review of a particular online merchant. He made no accusations.

It's an unusual way to introduce yourself, except of course for online merchants.

We've had quite a few merchants show up here shilling for their products. It doesn't make them bad people or unreliable sellers, but it does raise some eyebrows. Your post followed, however coincidentally, the exact pattern that such posts always follow.

If a remarkable coincidence occurs, then it's only natural to remark upon it. If I chanced upon a piece of toast with the visage of St. Francis on it, I would certainly mention it (and sell it on Ebay!).

The reality is, recommendations from new members who no one knows yet are wisely regarded with caution. That fact has nothing to do with you and is no assault on you personally. Nobody "attacked" you.

It does sound like a good deal, I hope that it proves a reliable source.

alaa93 - 9-10-2010 at 01:55 PM

Sorry Brian Prunka, I understand that merchants always try to advertise on this forum and that you don't trust them or me but I am not a merchant, I am just a student.

It's my fault, I should've introduced myself in a better way. Hi, i'm Alaa Abdulbaki and I love to sing arabic songs(you can watch my youtube videos) and I love the oud. I really really want to learn. Oh I also play, what you call a doumbek. Sorry about posting something like that without introducing myself. I bought my oud from the merchant I talked about before because I had little money to spare. He turned out to be valid and now I know I can trust him.

Thank you for your time

spyros mesogeia - 9-10-2010 at 07:58 PM

Dear friend,
each flower has his own perfume.
An oud that fits to you and you are satisfited it's very possible not to be the same for somebody else.....
I am sure as you will start to get in to the oud more and more you will start to reconsider your opinion and your way of judging the quality and the sound of the ouds....each flower has his own parfume,each maker his own sound-quality-personality.
Personally I 've been 11 years ago to your place,all the ouds were the ''best'' and I just couldn't see many diferences....
After 11 years with the oud,21 years with music,I still believe that I am only at the beginning,and after hundrends of ouds that I tried ,I can say that now I start to see some details that I couldn't see before 10 years...
And ofcourse,I am only at the begining as many of us.....
The oud is a very good friend....just love it and you will learn it.....it's the sound of your soul....let it speak my friend

Brian Prunka - 9-11-2010 at 06:17 AM

Hey Alaa, no worries--welcome to the forum. Glad to have you aboard.

cheers

fernandraynaud - 9-11-2010 at 06:36 AM

Yes, Welcome alaa93.

There's another issue here, allow me to explain, which is that if your one transaction went OK, you don't want to stick your neck out and endorse a merchant more than to say you got one instrument and you were happy with what you got. It's not impossible that a more experienced oudist COULD possibly say the neck adjustment only goes from 3 to 6 mm, the lower bracing is glued on in the wrong place, the bass is atypically weak and it's the least playable and worst-sounding 212 that HE's ever seen. That's part of what Spyros is driving at.

More importantly, many people here, and I'm one of them, have had good experiences mixed with nightmares from the same merchants. When the instrument has no defects and it arrives 100% OK, everybody is all smiles. But when things go wrong, and for me they often have, that's when you get to know your vendor a little better. Like learning his insurance doesn't exist after all, that returning the oud is out of the question, that there is no way to prove how much money he actually got, that he ignores your desperate messages and/or becomes rude, and that getting even a partial refund is like pulling teeth from a rhinoceros.

So what does this have to do with you? One vendor was endorsed a little hastily and enthusiastically by one of our members, who was relatively inexperienced and was happy with the beginner's oud he got (though it was advertised as "professional" and he might have been a little more sensitive to the misrepresentation). A brand new member read his glowing endorsement and jumped in to place an order, a little too quickly. He received something that was not as advertised, that needs significant repairs and that HE was quite unhappy with it. When he wanted to return it he discovered the realities, AND he was treated pretty badly.

It was nice of you to share your one positive experience, and nobody is calling you a liar. But you can't blame us for having grown a little wary, and in any case you surely wouldn't want to take responsibility beyond what you know and experienced first hand, nothing more and nothing less, especially on your first post.

alaa93 - 9-11-2010 at 07:36 AM

You are absolutely right fernandraynaud. I was suspicious at first but the man kept to his word. Oudistcamp, I got my doumbek from Lebanon haha. Thanks a lot for the advice spyros.

spyros mesogeia - 9-11-2010 at 11:48 AM

You are welcome my friend.
Peace
Spyros

fernandraynaud - 9-21-2010 at 01:52 PM

There's an important detail, lesson two. If you live in California you don't know that NO prices in the world at large are real. California is the only place people believe in what they are quoted. In the Middle East, anyone who accepts the first quoted price is considered a rude idiot who doesn't have the courtesy of playing the game, a complete moron who deserves to be reamed.

Lesson three. Don't broadcast the details of your underwear,
as you are interfering with the flow and haggle of free trade.
And when someone gets screwed, they'll come back and be mad at you.

A man who was dining at Crew's
Found quite a large fly in his stew.
Said the waiter: don't shout
And waive it about
Or the others will be wanting one too.

Alfaraby - 9-21-2010 at 02:24 PM

One simple, informative non-provocative, question : Why to buy from a dealer, while you can contact Sukkar's site directly ?
As much as I know they sell all over the world ! Isn't that so ?
I know also that these types won't cost that much, no matter where you ship them

Thank you

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

fernandraynaud - 9-21-2010 at 10:48 PM

Alfaraby, for people who don't read/write Arabic, I don't think that's an option, apparently even Sukar himself does not know English. Besides, I don't believe they will ship out single quantity.

MvT - 10-6-2010 at 05:37 PM

Bad experience

I’m embarrassed to say that fernandraynaud was right in his post warning about unknown oud sellers.

I followed Alaa93’s recommendation and decided to order a Sukar oud # 212 from
the company” Music Corner” in Syria.
I have an old Syrian friend there and had him call the seller to make sure he was legitimate.

In the mean time the seller Idder Hicham emailed me prices and photos of all the Sukar oud models.
We agreed on a price of $550 including shipping and I told him specifically that I want a Sukar Model #212.
He told me the instrument would be insured, so no worries !!!!

What I got was an oud that looked more like a Model #1.

It didn’t have a certificate of authentication by Ibrahim Sukar inside,
but by a person named Naieem Sekar from Aleppo.

After careful inspection I detected a crack in the neck next to the beg box.

I took photos and sent them to Mr. Hicham with the question ,why he did not send
the model I ordered.
He did not respond, but 2 days later sent me an email wanting positive feedback on the oud forum website.

I sent him a detailed email again with even more photos and questions about the origin of this oud and why he did not send an Ibrahim Sukar oud #212, as I had ordered.
His answers were contradicting and he blamed everybody around him, starting with Ibrahim Sukar;
that he cannot fill his orders in time and is only out to make as much money as he can;
to his business partner who had sold the last Sukar oud to somebody else and even to a member of the oud forum.

He finally told me that the oud was made by Ibrahim Sukar’s brother Naem Sukar, which I questioned, since the name on the label inside the oud is different.

He did not send the oud in a hard case as it was stated in his first email and he later said he never agreed to it and had never sent out an oud in a Sukar fiber hard case, even though he advertises it on his website.

He told me that the oud I got was 10 times better than a Sukar #1 and would normally coast $750 .
My response to him was that I wanted a Sukar #212
and if he has none available right now, I would like to return the oud and get a refund and wait till he gets the model #212…........no response from him.

In the mean time I had contacted a friend in Norway who restores historical instruments and asked him about the possibility of fixing the crack.
As I weighed my options, I mailed Mr. Hicham, asking how much the instrument was insured for and that I would like to put a claim in, so I could get this oud fixed.

Today, when I opened the carton, the beg box was fully broken off the neck.

I took a photo and sent it to him telling him I really want to file an insurance claim.
I went to the post office and called the international postal claims department.
They were very helpful, but told me that a claim has also to be filed from the sender’s side.
When I emailed Mr. Hicham about the situation, he told me he had already thrown away the receipt of my tracking number.( the oud had arrived this weekend)

He claimed that I had broken the oud on purpose to get money; that I’m a liar and inexperienced oudist and I would wind up in jail because my claim is false.
What customer service!

I know this sounds like a bad soap and the reason I’m writing in such detail is to let people know about the fraudulent and criminal behavior of this seller,
I know I will never get my money back, but I can warn people not to buy from the company called Music Corner owned by Idder Hicham of Damascus Syria.
My friend in Syria will try to press charges against him. He has tried to reach him by phone several times, but Mr. Hicham hangs up on him.

So my final question is:
where can I get the oud repaired?

Thanks in advance for your patients to read through this saga.

MvT

PS: No hard feelings about Alaa93.
He has been very supportive!
I have been in contact with him while I was trying to deal with this seller.

Zulu - 10-6-2010 at 06:23 PM

To those who may not know...
If you search the user "musiccorner" you will find the ranking under the name is Banned

Quote: Originally posted by Greg

Quote: Originally posted by oudmasterusa

how much are you willing to pay???

Dear Oudmasterusa (formerly 'musiccorner'),

As a result of complaints about your one line posts with no dialogue other than your email address, I banned you once and I will do so again unless you wish to participate on these forums in a meaningful way.

If you have products to sell, please provide details of those products and not just post your email address on every thread where someone has indicated an interest in purchasing an instrument.

Greg

MvT - 10-6-2010 at 07:45 PM

Thanks Zulu,
I should have read this post and the whole thread earlier, before I placed the order!!!
but now I saw that others in the forum had similar problems with sellers in Syria.

I feel there is no win situation and the best is to let others know,
that these sellers are not trustworthy.

fernandraynaud - 10-6-2010 at 10:27 PM

Sorry to hear of your troubles, MvT. But let me just add that I'm not sure it's over and you have to give up. You're at the stage where things are just getting picturesque. If you want to recoup at least some of the money you have to really use your imagination.

Arab Instrument - 10-7-2010 at 08:38 AM

I am sorry to hear about your story and about your bad experience with this dealer.
I know that in my company you would get the original oud you have ordered and in case of a damage to the oud during the shipping we would refund your money back.

Assaf
http://www.arabinstruments.com

fernandraynaud - 10-8-2010 at 05:15 AM

It probably would have been better for you not to post this. It wouldn't be right for me to let you post this sort of self-serving BS unchallenged.

We get a lot of new people who want to play the oud. It's wonderful. They come here, but only some of them have the wisdom to do a lot of reading in the forum before they place an order.

Why do most of them have to go through the same old nonsense, and why do we have to witness all the variants of abuse, over and over?

Why is it so difficult for you mass-vendors to accurately describe what you are selling, and clearly present the eventual options to the customer ahead of time?

If you want to use this occasion to promote your business and tell us how well you treat your customers, then it's only fair we look at specifics, like:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11020&p...

In fact, in this case you misrepresented the instrument as being "professional", having "supreme quality manifest in every possible way", with an ebony fingerboard, when in fact it had none of that, and needed significant work to bring it even to an "acceptable" level. In the end the customer discovered returning it was impractical, and he had been "had". A lot of other people wouldn't have been so calm about it!

You know, I love the oud, and I respect Middle Eastern traditions. What really bothers me is that instead of helping eager beginners pick out a good instrument, instead of being a positive influence and helping promote Middle Eastern culture, you don't mind giving it a bad name.

Arab Instrument - 10-8-2010 at 06:28 AM

Mr Fernandraynaud

From the beginning the only thing you have to say is just bad things about us.
You don't know anything about us and there are not 100% happy customers.
If there is a problem it will be sloved with our clients and not in this forum.

It is very sad that you are trying so hard to ruin our good reputation and now that you have this case you are probably very happy.

I am wandering if you can present in this forum also the good feedbacks about us.

Very sad !

Assaf
Arab Instruments

MvT - 10-8-2010 at 07:25 AM

Hi Fernandraynaud,

thanks for your responds.

It is very sad, that vendors like the one I bought from create such a bad vibe and treat costumers with so much disrespect.
I love middle eastern music and have been playing middle eastern drums for decades.
I never bought my drums on line.
This was my first try to buy an instrument over the Internet.
I though I give the business to people in the country where the oud was made.

Since I have a friend in Syria with whom I studied and know for many years
I was hoping his phone calls would help in the transaction and I would not be taken advantage off.

Little did I know!!!

fernandraynaud - 10-8-2010 at 12:13 PM

Dear Assaf,

From what "beginning"? It is one of the realities of the modern world that information flows far, fast and wide. Yes, it puts very severe demands on customer relations. If you take good care of your customers, they tend to take good care of you. Why should I be happy to hear of bad experiences?

It's no longer possible to do "hit and run" business. No matter how well you present your business, the most important thing we know about you is what your customers say, and every single unhappy customer with a credible complaint must be considered an important warning to the next customer.

It's very important not to spread innuendo and defamation. It becomes pretty rapidly clear to an experienced person when someone is complaining without good cause. There is one member who repeatedly tells second hand horror stories about one specific vendor, and although there is some substance to what he says, members have started to discount his litany. Sometimes also people praise a vendor without any first hand experience. But when they have beat up on a vendor without good cause or first hand experience, I have defended them.

You say: "If there is a problem it will be sloved with our clients and not in this forum" -- well, then, slove them, and in the meantime don't come on forums like this to crow about how you well you treat customers. Feel free to point us to positive reports from customers.

Since beginners here ask us, it's especially important we point them to potential issues and bona fide complaints. Unfortunately, even if many of your customers are happy, it's ZERO consolation for those who are not. When Scolecite complained, I pointed out the positive side of his purchase to him as well, and his reaction was very fair and balanced. Nobody is persecuting you; how you chose to treat him was your decision.

Jason - 10-8-2010 at 03:52 PM

I've long said that there is a lot of money to be made by someone in America or Canada to open an online oud shop with pictures of real instruments, no nonsense shipping, and fair prices. I don't mean to sound geocentric by saying that but I think it would be much easier for beginners if they don't have to deal with things like language barriers, stock photos, odd descriptions, and slow communication.

spyros mesogeia - 10-8-2010 at 05:33 PM

:shrug:

spyros mesogeia - 10-8-2010 at 05:40 PM

my sugestion to you dear friend is that when you want to get an oud you should go personally and take it,play it try it.....
This is what I do and this is what people I sale ouds do,because I ask them to do it.....
Or get directly from the luthier,serious luthiers with good reputation,BUT
as I said....go and check the instrument,oh...and an advice because I 've been in your place....Try to buy a good oud,well made with good woods and sound,believe me you will NEVER regrate it....
Take care and I am really sorry for what happened,it's really very sad and I really really wish you to find a good oud.

sloppyjack593 - 10-9-2010 at 09:30 AM

I read about a quarter of the way down this before getting bored of the lack of oudspeak! Here here to the comment on modern day identity, but yeah advice on oud learning - learn the fiddle. If you listen to western music it acts as a transition almost to become familiar with a lack of frets. I may be talking bull<b>shoot</b> to any here sayer but as a guitar and mandolin player, it's working for me.

sabbassi - 10-11-2010 at 07:21 AM

Hi Mvt,

Where do you live?, I can fix your oud for free my friend. I feel sorry for you.

regards,

Samir

charlie oud - 10-11-2010 at 08:36 AM

Arab Instruments & Assaf. You are very welcome on this forum. Mike has included you in the forum links and has stated you are committed to an excellent service. I wish you every success. This forum is generally welcoming and helpful so please stay with us. I think your website is excellent and its always good to see your posts which show us the latest ouds you have to offer with sound clips too!!! Well done.

MvT - 10-11-2010 at 04:01 PM

Hi Samir ,

thanks for your offer ,
that is very nice of you.

But I see you are living in the Netherlands and I live in New York.

I think I will be able to fix the oud myself.
I'm a piano maker and also made hand drums and bamboo flutes.
That's why I'm even more upset to see how careless this oud was made.
Do you have any tips how to clean the hide glue of the face of the oud.
The face is unfinished pine.
There are spots all over from the manufacturing, very poor job , also inside the body the work is very sloppy.

Thanks again, we are actually neighbors,
I'm originally from Germany
:wavey:

sabbassi - 10-12-2010 at 12:27 AM

Hi,

With all due respect, Some oud makers or companies just use the labels to sell. This ouds are built within a day or 2 sometimes by kids even. I have seen it myself. this are mass productions ouds. What do you expect of 500 Dollars oud inc. shipping and Case.

There are so many things you need to check before buying an oud: What kind of wood is used for all parts of the oud, even the neck block and tail. the Soundboard, a descent sound board from aged spruce or cedar etc....

I have seen the inside work of some ouds, it's a disaster. dripping glue, loosen paper joint etc..

I would use a scraper to remove the glue. Very gentle with it, as you may make some damage to the board. After that you can sand it lightly.

Good luck to you

fernandraynaud - 10-12-2010 at 03:56 AM

Assaf, I too would like to congratulate you on your web site. I hope that this incident is an encouragement to be especially careful that beginners fully understand what they are considering buying. Perhaps it's time to move away from the language of the baazaar, in which every item is "the best"? I trust that the next reports we hear will be from very satisfied customers.

Zulu - 10-12-2010 at 04:57 AM

Assaf,

I must agree with Fernand; as a new buyer to the oud market it would be great to see detailed descriptions of the ...
Soundboard wood
Is the soundboard 2 piece?
Peg wood
Bowl woods
Fingerboard wood
Bridge wood
String length
Overall dimensions
Nut material
Rosette material
Number of staves(ribs)
Action measurement at neck body junction
If the neck is adjustable put that in the description(huge selling point!!!)
If it comes with case, what is the case made of?
Clearly post your terms of sale and return policy for those who live in and out of your country.

I am a very successful business owner and appreciate feedback from customers and potential customers; it has allowed me to tailor my advertising to what the customer is attracted to...a very simple and effective tool!
Your sales are highly likely to increase just by simply adding as many detailed descriptions of your product that you can gather.
This would show the customer that...
1) You are knowledgeable about the product you sell.
2) You are concerned that the client knows exactly what they are purchasing from you.
These two points of interest create trust between the buyer and seller; trust is the most important element of any relationship and once a buyer trusts you he will not buy from anyone else.

We appreciate the service/business you offer and would love to see you have more continued success and are offering suggestions and constructive criticism so that you might more clearly establish yourself as a trusted source for purchasing an oud.

I wish you all the best!!!

Arab Instrument - 10-12-2010 at 06:15 AM

Thank you very much for your feedbacks.
We will take into consideration every feedback.

Our goal is to give the best service we can and we will try to do the best in order to get more happy customers.

Thanks again

Assaf

oudy allen - 5-16-2012 at 01:00 PM

I guess I have also been deceived by the same guy Hicham Idder. Two weeks ago we agreed on the price of 400 € for the Sukar Model 201 (on Alibaba). It has been two weeks now since he allegedly sent the oud but I have not received anything yet (I live in Germany). He recently sent me a tracking number obviously belonging to another shipment (destination Russia). Now he's putting me off with inconsistent excuses and incoherent replies. The bad thing here is that there is apparently nothing I can do since the payment cannot be withdrawn. I am extremely upset and disappointed. Any advice what to do and how to behave??

fernandraynaud - 5-17-2012 at 03:15 AM

I had a series of exchanges with this "man" a few years ago. The interesting thing is he changes name and offers whatever your want at whatever price. Then if you're lucky you might get whatever he happens to have. Unfortunately it's not uncommon and not considered "cheating". That's the secret, he justifies it as just cleverness. Oudy I think you're going to have to get under his skin. I believe you have to start by ridiculing him, using the most stinging insults and demolishing his story so much that even he starts to feel uneasy. You might get an oud yet. Contacting someone on location can be helpful. But just politely pointing out details like fake numbers, missing money, delays or the wrong instrument just gets a hearty laugh from everybody in the baazaar. When you think about it, especially considering the country is verging on total chaos at the moment, and hundreds of people are being torn apart by artillery every day, that might not be an entirely inappropriate reaction to someone ordering a musical instrument from Syria at this time. If you want any chance of results you're going to have to turn up the heat a lot.

dkhoury35 - 5-17-2012 at 03:47 AM

do you know somebody in syria to go knock on his door with a base ball bat or even an a k47 give him a fright

oudy allen - 5-17-2012 at 04:09 AM

Thanks for your replies guys. Well, it's been two weeks now that I've been grappling with this guy. He seems to be a very shameless and cheeky guy since he's coming up with the craziest stories and excuses just to play out time.

I knew that it could be problematic to buy an Oud sent from Syria right now but the guy told me that he is currently located in Morocco and he can also send the oud from Morocco. That's why I thought there would be no problems. I think I'll have to put some more pressure on him. But I don't think that I'll eventually get my Sukar 201.

Unfortunately I don't know anybody in Syria who might be able to help me. Even if, the guy is residing in Morocco.

You cannot imagine how pissed off I am.

Could you guys give me some reliable ways to get a Sukar oud?

Best Regards

_tone - 5-17-2012 at 10:51 AM

there are a couple of sukar ouds for sale here on the forum that look like pretty good deals, excellent deals compared to your recent experiences. you'll have to do your own due diligence of course, but my one experience buying from a forum member was excellent.
sorry about your current difficulties, good luck.

MvT - 5-17-2012 at 01:23 PM

Hi Oudy,
I'm sorry to hear Hicham Idder also took advantage of you.
I'm from Germany too and we do business very differently there.
Put all your good behavior aside and just get right down tuff with him.

He is a cool operator and will insult you.
Don't be afraid!
He got very ugly with me, when I confronted him, that he didn't send a Sugar Oud and that the neck broke off during shipping.

I actually have a friend in Syria who studied with me in Germany and had asked him for help when it all came crashing down.

He tried to call him, but Hicham would hang up on him when he started to talk about the Oud and later never picked up again.
Sorry for the bad news.

I also thought it would be good to order directly from the county where the Oud was made. big mistake!!!

My Oud is actually now showing cracks in the body and I will have to find somebody who can do the repair.
Does anybody know of a place in New York who could help me?
thanks in advance for your recommendations.

Good luck. Alles Gute!
Maria :wavey:

fernandraynaud - 5-17-2012 at 09:24 PM

If you are willing to understand that there's a cultural gap here, and that you will have to haggle, negotiate and be assertive, i.e. get in the spirit, Palmyrami is probably one of the best retail sources for Sukars. Note that they have more than one page of each category on their web site. They don't gauge on the price and, like any Middle Eastern merchant, can be flexible if they feel like it.

They don't know much about ouds, and ouds are a tiny fraction of the wooden objects they offer. But Sukars are very consistent as far as ouds go, and what they have in stock in the US (the ones with a clear price and NOT marked "in stock in our Syria store"), can be ordered with a pretty high level of confidence -- incomparably better experience than from some of the "knowledgeable" overseas dealers who manage to ship a vast selection of "professional" flower planters shaped like ouds.

Palmyrami's instruments have been (accurately) photographed and (very well) packed in Syria, so they just take the corresponding labeled and taped up box off the shelf in Michigan and ship it out. Questions like "is the action low?" can only elicit responses along the lines of the cookie cutter descriptions in their ads, so don't bother asking. They don't know ouds from chairs, but Sukars generally take care of themselves. If the customer is livid, Palmyrami can be made to understand that this transaction isn't working out, and they will take back the wooden thingie they sold. If the instrument has to be shipped to you from Syria, it's more difficult, and realistically not advisable at this time. I mention all this because I have purchased from Palmyrami several times and they have always been fair in the end.

oudy allen - 5-18-2012 at 03:30 AM

Thank you guys.

Well, I confronted him with the situation several times and also wrote quite harshly but this Hicham Idder guy now isn't replying at all to me. I really don't know what to do now since there seem to be no possibilities to get at this deceiver. I will let you know as soon as something evolves.