Mike's Oud Forums

Sukar Oud no certificate???

Zulu - 9-12-2010 at 09:45 AM

I'm interested in buying a Sukar Model 1 from Arab Instruments.
There is a disclaimer on the web site that says...
**The oud is coming without the oud inner certificate due to the customs problems.**
Can anyone explain this?
Should I be concerned?
Thanks

Arab Instrument - 9-12-2010 at 09:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Arab Instrument  
Dear Friends

Since we import the ouds from Syria direct to Isreal ,and it is not allowed due to the customes rules in Israel to import from Syria, and we have asked from Ibrahim Sukar factory to remove these labels.

All our ouds are original with beautiful sound.
You can listen to the sound in the website

Arab Instrument - 9-12-2010 at 09:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by katakofka  
Quote: Originally posted by Sazi  
Quote from the ad for this oud on arabinstruments.com -

"The oud is coming without the oud inner certificate due to the customs problems."

Does anyone know what these problems might be?...I don't really care one way or another, I'm just curious...

I have never heard of any legitimate oud having to come without a label, and I have bought a number of ouds that have come through various customs departments around the world, with the original labels all present and correct.



I guess arab instrument.com are located in israel so shipping from syria (where sukkar is) to israel is not feasible. If this is true that they are located in israel and they are selling sukkar ouds it would be a problem for ibrahiim. He could be in trouble for that. Reason why no labeling on the oud.

SamirCanada - 9-12-2010 at 10:42 AM

Lol I guess they are located in Israel.
Why do you guess? Hehehe

No label isn't a big deal since his ouds are easy to recognize.

Zulu - 9-12-2010 at 11:05 AM

Thanks, I assumed it wasn't a problem due to Sukar having a great reputation, but wanted to check before I consider a purchase to be sure I'm buying a real Sukar.
I've never bought a Sukar and wondered if the certificate was similar to a certificate of authenticity when buying fine art.

zakiya_alali - 9-12-2010 at 01:05 PM


you need to be carful there as there are some fake sukar ouds.

Don't by sukar oud unless it has a clear certificate

oud without label just like a letter without stamp

Take Care

Zulu - 9-12-2010 at 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by zakiya_alali  

you need to be carful there as there are some fake sukar ouds.

Don't by sukar oud unless it has a clear certificate

oud without label just like a letter without stamp

Take Care

That is really how I feel as well; I'm not an authority on oud authenticity, but I would be more at ease spending that kind of money if the oud came with a certificate. I think I'll wait.

Brian Prunka - 9-12-2010 at 03:25 PM

Seriously, if someone wants to fake an oud, it's easy to fake a label or certificate as well.

I don't think it means anything one way or the other.

katakofka - 9-12-2010 at 03:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
Lol I guess they are located in Israel.
Why do you guess? Hehehe

No label isn't a big deal since his ouds are easy to recognize.


It was not clear if they were located in Israel at the time when I commented on a question asked by Sazi.
Just to be in the context of the thread, if you call brahim sukkar and asked him that you bought an oud from instrument.com what he would say? he will definitely deny because he would be in trouble...so you will never know if brahim sukkar oud from instrument.com are really sukkar ouds or not

Mehran - 9-12-2010 at 04:37 PM

Its better to be safe than sorry. Like you said, I would wait until something more clear cut arose.

I find arabinstruments.com confusing. Their descriptions are inadequate and very vague, including their location which is described as in the "middle-east".

SamirCanada - 9-12-2010 at 07:26 PM

Hey Kata,
I should apologize, I didnt see you had written that but rather I thought they were saying that about themselves? ex: I guess we are in Israel so...
sorry for my confusion.

A 500$ Sukar oud isn't really a fine piece of fine art. Undoubtedly, there could be fakes but really if it looks like one then it probably is made by him or perhaps by someone like a former employee or something. Anyhow, ouds of that level are more about how they sound and how they play rather then about who made them.
People buy his ouds because they are solid and are pretty much the only syrian ouds made to play rather then to hang on a wall as a decoration. But there are sooo many of them around and they all look the same. When you try to sell it, not many people would argue with you that its a fake if there isnt a label since they are soo easy to identify.

if you insist, you can probably see if you can get a label from him by post to wherever you are.

Arab Instrument - 9-12-2010 at 08:15 PM

Dear friends

Arabinstruments is an honest company and we will never sell a fake instruments to our clients around the world.

We hope that we will get the labels of Ibrahim sukar certificate soon because we asked for them.

It is very sad to listen to some of you. Anyway if you want to buy a good oud of Ibrahim Sukar i thing we are the address.

The sound sample will be added soon for you.

Thanks
ArabInstruments.com

Abo Zaina - 9-13-2010 at 01:40 AM

I don't know how possible is it
but may I suggest (with all respect) for Arab instrument and upon a request from the customer himself, to ship it directly from it's country of origin if the customer is outside your country and he is to accept whatever difference in shipping charges and whatever risk this may put the shipped oud in.

Or to obtain an official letter from Sukkar that Arabinstruments are an authorized reseller for his ouds and ask Sukkar to label these ouds with ( Made specially for Arabinstrument) without any further details that may cause customs issues.

I guess anyone of the above would solve it.

Arabinstrument ARE HONEST!

Luttgutt - 9-13-2010 at 01:59 AM

1- All the Sukar ouds on Arabinstruments website ARE Sukar ouds, not fake! Anyone who have seen a Sukar oud SHOULD be able to see that!!
I have seen (on Mike oud) fake sukar ouds. But not these ones.

2- My first Sukar model1 oud had no lable. No problem!
Are they really people out there that still don't KNOW that Syria and Israel cannot have any relation (economical or otherwise)!!??? So there is NO WAY Arabinstruments can get the labales (not leegally anyway).

3- I think (my personal opinion) that this forum is lucky to have such an honest dealer som arabinstruments, and should incourage them instead!

p.s. a spesial Hi to Fernandraynaud, Reda, Sazi, og ALAMI :-)

Reda Aouad - 9-13-2010 at 06:22 AM

In my humble opinion..

I dont think Ibrahim Sukkar, the Syrian oud maker, would deal with people working in Israel. The two countries are enemies (obviously) so he wouldn't put himself in very serious legal troubles. Economic trades between the countries are forbidden, so he can't ship but in an illegal way, and I can't imagine Ibrahim starting to ruin his career and life in order to gain a few more bucks.

That being said, it first raises the question of how are these ouds shipped? In what condition do they arrive if they are illegally smuggled? And who does it? And second raises our doubt, not only about the authenticity and condition of the ouds, but about the labels as well.. does it mean that Ibrahim Sukkar will (illegally) ship the labels separately and Arab Instruments would glue them back on the ouds?! And how would you take that as a buyer?

Plus.. I don't think any oud maker would accept to sell ouds without his labels for very obvious reasons. Ok I know that forging ouds and labels can be done, but the maker does at least what he can do to ensure the authenticity of his ouds.

I'm sorry to intervene with people's business, but I can't see any honesty in that story. And I think there is no need to ask Ibrahim about it to verify that.

Reda Aouad - 9-13-2010 at 06:23 AM

And to be fair.. is there anyone who personally knows Ibrahim Sukkar and can verify the story?

Reda Aouad - 9-13-2010 at 06:24 AM

OH I almost forgot !!!!


Welcome back LUTTGUTT !! It's a pleasure to have you back :)

Sazi - 9-13-2010 at 06:37 AM

Yes, they may or may not, know more about furniture than they do about ouds, but it is clear from satisfied customers and the responses and initiatives from the company, such as their handy on-line oud tuner, shows that they really are trying their best to please everyone. They are not "fly by night" they are hopefully here for the long run, trying to please so you go back to them or recommend them to others, which those here who have bought ouds from them willingly and happily do.



:wavey:Hi GK, good to hear from you!

charlie oud - 9-13-2010 at 07:24 AM

Cant help much here, but I believe Arab instruments is an honest retailer, they would not be on the Mike's ouds forum links page if they were not. Also their threads on this site have contributed alot to sharing with us the choices available on the oud market and we would know very quickly from members if arab instruments failed to deliver a genuine Sukar oud. Sometimes we frighten off people who are trying to sell ouds without any evidence that they are bad sellers. There is caution which is reasonable and there is suspicion which is not. I personally extend a warm welcome to arab instruments.

Zulu - 9-13-2010 at 09:54 AM

To Arab Instruments,

To clarify...This thread was in no way meant to accuse you of selling fake Sukar Ouds.
I own a no-name student model oud and am shopping for a better instrument. The Sukar reputation and affordability attracted me.
I purchased my oud in a violin shop and am new to buying an oud on line and was only seeking information to make sure I would not make any mistakes.
As you can see, my original post made no accusations...only two simple questions...
"Can anyone explain this?" and "Should I be concerned?"
I would never make a personal attack against anyone on this forum and my inquiry was only to learn about a topic that I knew nothing about.
I'm sure you operate a well respected and honest business and I wish you continued success.

Arab Instrument - 9-13-2010 at 09:58 AM

Thank you

We Hope to deal with you in the future :)
They are all originals and they have the best finishing and tomorrow we hope to have a sound samples. ;)

fernandraynaud - 9-13-2010 at 11:53 PM

Whoa! Luttgutt is baaaaack. Happy day.

Thanks guys for the warm welcome :-)

Luttgutt - 9-14-2010 at 02:34 AM

The reason I desappeard from Mike Oud is that I refuse to "live" in a dictatorship of any kind...
But I missed you guys :-D

Reda, I agree with you. But I don't think that Sukar sells to Israel. My guess is that his ouds go to Jordan, and then to Israel (and that is legal!).

My first Sukkar oud, was a model1 that I bought in Beirut in 2003. It had no label. But one can see that the lable was REMOVED. The traces of the paper are still inside the oud.
So Sukar is selling them with lable!

I have no idea why or who removed it! And I am not planning to ask Mr. Sukar about it :-)

Good to hear from you guys.. really missed you :-)

martino2010 - 9-14-2010 at 02:57 AM


Hi, yes, it is better to be careful than sorry, unfortunately crooks who anxious to get rich are proliferating, so better wait and see, crooks are getting worried I am told, martino