BaniYazid - 9-18-2010 at 07:05 AM
Hello !
Hope you are all fine.
I want to present you my small oud, 447 mm scale.
First, is it a oud ? It have 5 double strings.
Buy it 51 euros on ebay. I love the wood grain of the bowll, I don't know what wood it's made of.
The pictures know, and other questions after that.
pics
BaniYazid - 9-18-2010 at 07:18 AM
other pics
BaniYazid - 9-18-2010 at 07:19 AM
BaniYazid - 9-18-2010 at 07:35 AM
As I understand, it's not a barbat, the scale is too short. It may be a children oud.
I tryed pyramid string, this set : http://www.pick-et-boch.com/produit.php?prodid=930&bd=Jeu+de+co...
I know now that they are not good for this scale.
So, do I have to buy personalised set from the manufacturer for this scale ?
Nobody have a oud with this scale ?
Thanks for your info.
jdowning - 9-18-2010 at 12:29 PM
Hi BaniYazid - nice looking oud!
Is there a label inside the oud giving information about the maker and date? If the oud is Turkish then it may have the traditional dimensions of a
girl's or woman's sized oud (I can't remember the exact sizes without checking further).
If you use Pyramid strings you should use their lute strings. You will be able to select the best strings for that scale length by using the Pyramid
String Calculator (a slide rule purchased from Pyramid at reasonable cost) or by using the Pyramid string tension tables that I posted on the forum
some time ago (do a search for "Pyramid String Tension Tables", jdowning) or by contacting Pyramid who will provide the correct strings given the
scale length, string tension and tuning.
fernandraynaud - 9-18-2010 at 12:34 PM
It's perhaps a magical dwarf's oud? Have you tried rubbing it? (but be prepared not to get tricked into wasting your wishes!) 
[I have to put that little grin there lest someone who doesn't recognize a jest accuse me of giving dangerous advice.]
jdowning - 9-18-2010 at 12:37 PM
OK - checking with an earlier post the traditional scale length for a Turkish oud 'girl' size is 54 cm and for 'woman' size is 55.5 cm so your oud is
much smaller than these. It reminds me (in size) of the 'descant' lutes of the 16th C.
Very interesting.
BaniYazid - 9-19-2010 at 03:44 AM
Hi jdowning,
thank you for the info, I will contact pyramid to know which string are better for this scale and arabic tuning. I will try gut string, here http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_musique/82326726.htm?ca=18_s
Hi fernandraynaud,
The genius says to me : go to mike's oud forum, you'll find funny people and good advice. He does not deceive me !
The big problem with this oud is the action 5 mm, very uncomfortable with such a short scale. I plan to buy a rosewood fingerboard and glue it on the
original one to the sound hole.
Adding tow millimetres rosewood on the sound board will not be too much and deteriorate the sound ?
fernandraynaud - 9-19-2010 at 06:16 PM
There's no question that what you propose might change the timbre, I forget who it was, but in one case I heard of it muting the instrument
"a bit", I think the "a bit" caused it to end up on e-bay. But then what good is timbre if your action is 5 mm? The sad thing is that this is such an
unusual instrument, it's a shame to modify it. But then again, if you want to actually PLAY it ...
Have you considered other ways to approach this, like shaving the existing fingerboard so it tapers down towards the nut (and lowering the nut)?
That's only practical if the neck is solid or the glued on fingerboard is thick enough. Another way is to drill lower holes in the bridge. That's only
practical if the bridge is very high. The usual way to do this, and it's (sigh!) a commonplace procedure on fixed-neck ouds, is to reset the neck
angle, a "simple job" which starts with ... sawing off the neck (shudder!). It might be that what you propose is the best way, and the impact on
timbre might be insignificant (or conceivably even beneficial). You could possibly undercut the new fingerboard (like on a violin) so it doesn't even
contact the soundboard. If you tap the oud and the area where the new fingerboard would be glued down isn't very live, chances are it won't hurt, but
if it's an active part of the soundboard resonance, it might be smart to undercut it.
Make sure you draw the project and use basic math to calculate how much you will actually drop the action with how thick a fingerboard layer, so you
don't discover you did a lot of work only to gain 1 mm! The distance from the nut to the neck-body joint is 1/3 of the scale. It might be that
tapering the new soundboard so it's (much) thinner at the nut will be very important. This was suggested by pros with a lot of experience. In fact if
your nut is good as-is, it might save you the tricky work of reworking the nut.
jdowning - 9-20-2010 at 05:20 AM
A quick check indicates that in order to drop the action to say
3 mm at the neck joint you may need to remove about 3 mm from the neck at the nut. If there is insufficient thickness in the fingerboard to allow for
this then the fingerboard should be removed, the neck shaved down an appropriate amount at the nut end (if there is sufficient material to allow for
this) and the finger board re fitted. Note that the neck, being semi circular in section, a reduction in the neck thickness also reduces the width of
the finger board surface.
Otherwise resetting the neck is likely the best way to go.
If you intend to string the oud with all gut stringing you may have to purchase the strings from one of the well known historical lute string makers
(e.g. Aquila Strings, Dan Larson, N.R.I. Instruments) in order for the basses to work (they require a special construction in order to be flexible and
elastic enough to sound well at lower pitches otherwise out of range of plain medium twist gut strings).
For a 45 cm string length the highest pitch that you will be able to tune to in order to avoid frequent breakage of the gut treble strings is b'flat
at A440 (0.36 mm diameter) but then the lowest pitch for a simply twisted gut string would be e with a string 0.99 mm in diameter which would be
insufficient tonal range for a 5 course oud? The tension of these plain gut strings would be about 2.2 Kg each. (source - 'Pyramid' lute string
calculator - costing about 14 Euros from 'Pyramid')
BaniYazid - 9-21-2010 at 05:10 AM
>>>>>>>what good is timbre if your action is 5 mm?
Good question, I can judge if I like the sound or not, definitly yes with the three FAD strings, and not at all with the two gc nyllon strings.
>>>>>>>The sad thing is that this is such an unusual instrument, it's a shame to modify it. But then again, if you want to
actually PLAY it ...
I agree, I like this oud like it is, sobre. Playing it now, I'm not shure, I just begin to learn alone (not really alone, mike's videos are with me,
and I'm waiting for "learn maqamat" by DrOudprof.
>>>>>>>Have you considered other ways to approach this, like shaving the existing fingerboard
Yes, I read some advices in the forum, but my fingerboard is too thin and the stringholes in the bridge are too low.
>>>>>>>sawing off the neck ! Aïe ! my heart 
I've see pictures of this surgery, I don't have enougth skill to do this. But probably the best way to preserve the original look of the
instrument.
>>>>>>>Note that the neck, being semi circular in section, a reduction in the neck thickness also reduces the width of the finger
board surface
Yes, that's what I'm affraid of, making the action playable, and the fingerboard narrow and unplayable.
You make me realise that I'm not ready to do this, I have to learn playing with my arabic oud, you help me to ream the pegholes and fit pegs. And when
I fell I can begin to explore an other (unusual) instrument, then I'll try to make it playable.
Thank's fernand and jdowning for your help.
Hope this message will find you in good heath and mood.
Musicalement