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Help Identifying this Oud !

ALAMI - 10-2-2010 at 05:48 AM

This poor oud belonged to a famous and late Lebanese Singer, her grand daughter. who is a friend and who inherited a great voice, wanted to start learning oud, and that's how she discovered that the oud kept in her GrandMa closet was broken.

I am trying to help her to see how this poor oud can be repaired with minimum changes to its original state, unfortunately I don't believe that the face can be restored. What do you think ?

On the other hand I was trying to identify the maker of this oud, it was obvious that a repair label made by a certain Jameel Awad in 1969 was glued over and completely hiding the original label.

I tried to gently remove the newer label, I was unable to understand the name of the original maker,
It starts with "BDR..." but I don't think it is Bedrossian,
Maybe someone who's first name is BADR, or Badr Kamal ?

I don't think it is Bedrossian because bedrossian is not a first name. The oud looks like an old Syrian oud,

Anyone knows this label?

ALAMI - 10-2-2010 at 06:03 AM

Label

jdowning - 10-2-2010 at 08:51 AM

Nice looking oud ALAMI.
Although the face looks bad it should still be repairable to playing condition as the transverse breaks seem to be 'clean' around the inlaid edges of the sound holes but are otherwise along the length of the grain. Why not run it past Fadi Matta for his first hand opinion?

Interesting that the edge of the sound board is another example of 'half binding' inlays.

ALAMI - 10-2-2010 at 09:11 AM

Well, that would be a great news if the face could survive this level of damage.
here is another picture from the inside.

jdowning - 10-2-2010 at 11:00 AM

Interesting - there are those "Al Arja" style 'fan bracings' on each side of the bridge again. Perhaps these are not a 'foreign' feature of oud bracing as first thought after all?

The face looks repairable to me (the other missing parts are still attached to the bowl?). The large diameter decorated shams represent a fundamental weakness in this sound board design - hence the additional reinforcing bars underneath. Make sure to save as many of the loose little bits and pieces as possible!

Brian Prunka - 10-2-2010 at 01:12 PM

I'm not an expert, but it looks like the face could be saved. It might be more work than a new face, but if it is for historical, musical, personal reasons, it would be worthwhile to save it.

Alfaraby - 10-2-2010 at 04:24 PM

Hello there
It seems to me more Egyptian than Syrian !
Even the label says Badr &/or Kamal something, I don't exclude Fathy Amin's fingerprints on the soundboard.

Sentimental yes, but functionally it can not be restored for the damage to the face as figured out from the photo. The fracture is too harsh to be glued or even bridged underneath, and if someone manages to do so, I doubt if it will stand the stringing & the pressure or sound like an oud .
For me, I would order a new soundboard, but restore all the unharmed parts like rosettes or even inlays & bridges, though the latters don't seem a great success.

Good luck . You're gonna need it ....

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

jdowning - 10-4-2010 at 12:18 PM

This is a very interesting oud.
Although the image of the oud showing the broken sound board is not "full face" and subject to optical distortion ('foreshortening'), the attached geometry seems to be a close match.
The geometrical construction is self explanatory and follows examples currently proposed in the topic "Old Oud Compared to Old Lute Geometry" on this forum.

Because it is not possible to determine the exact centre of the large sound hole (or the relative sound hole geometry) from the posted images there would appear to be two possibilities:
1) the sound hole centre C is midway between point N and the front edge of the bridge (as shown in the attached image)
2) the sound hole centre C is midway between the neck joint and front edge of the bridge.

Either way, there would seem to be a match with the geometry of some surviving 16th and 17th C lutes (e.g. Ulm, Hieber, Cleveland Tiorbino).

The origin of this oud, based upon this limited information, is that it may possibly be Syrian or Lebanese rather than Egyptian. My impression is that Egyptian ouds typically have a more elongated profile - but this has yet to be confirmed.
The bracing geometry may eventually establish or suggest the origin if information on the original label cannot be deciphered.

ALAMI Broken Oud Geometry (560 x 655).jpg - 74kB

dinausuare - 4-17-2021 at 08:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI

This poor oud belonged to a famous and late Lebanese Singer, her grand daughter. who is a friend and who inherited a great voice, wanted to start learning oud, and that's how she discovered that the oud kept in her GrandMa closet was broken.

I am trying to help her to see how this poor oud can be repaired with minimum changes to its original state, unfortunately I don't believe that the face can be restored. What do you think ?

On the other hand I was trying to identify the maker of this oud, it was obvious that a repair label made by a certain Jameel Awad in 1969 was glued over and completely hiding the original label.

I tried to gently remove the newer label, I was unable to understand the name of the original maker,
It starts with "BDR..." but I don't think it is Bedrossian,
Maybe someone who's first name is BADR, or Badr Kamal ?

I don't think it is Bedrossian because bedrossian is not a first name. The oud looks like an old Syrian oud,

Anyone knows this label?

Hello there ALAMI,

Were you able to identify the origin of the oud or the name of the luthier?

I'm actually considering the purchase of an oud that looks very similar to yours, but I couldn't identify its maker. Here's a picture below.

Thanks a lot,

Attachment: oud (68kB)
This file has been downloaded 178 times

ALAMI - 4-27-2021 at 07:01 AM

No this oud was never identified and as Al Halabi said the name could be : Badr Kamil
I say it could also be Badr (or Badri) Hikmat
It was never repaired and yes i think yours looks very similar and it's more an Egyptian style oud.

naf - 9-15-2021 at 05:38 AM

it could be also: Badie' Ø¨Ø¯ÙŠØ¹