Hi Friends...
I am very curious to hear some ouds with skin tops. Does anyone know of any links where such an oud might be heard?
much appreciated!Alfaraby - 10-21-2010 at 12:04 AM
Edward dear !
Skin (or leather) top ouds were known throughout the history, both in Persia & Arabia. Persian called it Barbat (which means duck chest !) after
its shape, while Arabs called it Mazhar or Ma'azaf etc.
I don't think anyone of us has really sow or played such an oud, at least I haven't !
Maurice Shahatah had once built a breed of wood & leather soundboard, situating the leather patch underneath the fixed bridge, but he never
repeated this, as far as I could detect !
Yours indeed
AlfarabyLuttgutt - 10-21-2010 at 12:54 AM
Hi Edward!
I have played on "copy" of a skin topp Mandora (not mandola!) and a skin top fretless bouzouq (from Cantigas de Santa Maria repertoir). Both with
nylon strings (oud strings actually!)
I never seen a skin top oud. Maybe it is too big for that?
My guess is that the early ouds had partially skin on top (under the floating bridge maybe!?).
P.s. The Mandora sounded wanderfull! And very powerfull!
If I get the chance to play it again, I'll record it.charlie oud - 10-21-2010 at 12:54 AM
How about making one. Sarod style. Tough skin soundboard and floating bridge. My guess is, it could sound amazing, go on Ed you can do it!!! Benji - 10-21-2010 at 03:16 AM
Then my guess is that the body has to be a bit ticker than the usual ! Otherwise it's gonna sound like the jazz guitar! What i do know is that skin in
General increases the resonance of the sound and in return, it creates a dramatic form of sound. Persian Tar is a good example of skin top string
instruments. Now it has many differences with Oud such as Metal strings and the shape of the body and the fact that it has frets, but having all of
that in mind take a look at this ;
Well I have been thinking about my new ragmakamtar design (the instrument I made which is an oud and a sarod in one). What I am now finding is that
the wood soundboard needs to be SO huge in order to get a really good sound from each bridge.
I have a feeling that a skin top can actually be SMALLER than a wood top and produce the same frequencies. For example a sarod goes pretty low and the
skin top covers a pretty small area. An acoustic guitar goes a bit lower than a sarod but the soundboard size is about double.
Therefore my guess is that with a skin top I might be able to reduce the general size of the ragmakamtar (which is now really too big).
I know skin will sound great on the sarod side.... but I am concerned about the oud side --- what the hell will this sound like??Peyman - 10-21-2010 at 09:33 AM
There is a video on Majid Nazempour where he plays his skin top oud: http://www.oudmajid.com/videos.html
It's the top two, "concert in Morroco" and "concert in Iran 1"
I think it will sound nice
I have pictures of a few of them, if you need them.Edward Powell - 10-21-2010 at 10:03 AM
the sound on the iran clip sounds like a normal oud, and the skin area is very small....
Peyman - 10-21-2010 at 02:04 PM
The wooden plate probably makes the skin not sink too much and helps with the sound. That's why it sounds like an oud and not a robab. I put up a
picture here too. The first one is Iranian made, the second one is from an encylopedia or instruments from Azerbaijan and the last one is Maurice
Shehata's that was mentioned before.
Benji - 10-22-2010 at 05:57 AM
so, what will happen if the whole sound board was only skin ????Edward Powell - 10-22-2010 at 08:13 AM
might end up with unfocused frequenciessupasoul20 - 6-14-2011 at 09:45 AM
Another thing to consider is the thickness of the skin. Iranian tar uses lambs skin that is gently stretched over the two bowls. The bridge is
floating on the skin, but it stretches it quite a bit. This material is very light, has almost no perceivable grain, and is similar to some fish
skins used in riqs and percussion. On the other hand, the aforementioned Oud appears to have a rather thick goat skin. Also, I know that the
shourangiz (see Hossein Alizadeh) uses the same thick skin as in the tonbak drum, made from camel.
Has anyone here experimented with skin tops on instruments?
Then my guess is that the body has to be a bit ticker than the usual !
I guess so, too. Sarod has a very massive body; banjo also has a massive body ... I'd guess that sustain will be very short, otherwise ... also the
skin tension has to be quite high, and the usual oud body might not withstand that ... again, just guessing
best wishes
RobertPeyman - 6-29-2011 at 09:44 AM
I used to play tar and I still play cumbus quite often.
I also built a shurangiz with a flatback. Half of the "soundboard" was a stretched piece of thick calf skin. I then used a thin piece of mulberry wood
half the size of the skin (about 1/4 of the whole soundboard) under the bridge. Out of curiousity and for comparison, I took the mulberry off and had
the bridge directly on the skin. The instrument sounded very bassy, very similar to a natural skin banjo or if you ever played robab (I never played
sarod so I don't know). With the mulberry it sounds much better with a lot of sustain (even with the flat back), almost as if the soundboard is all
mulberry. I think this method works better since it has a tendency to focus the tone. You could potentially get a different tone quality with another
type of wood sitting under the bridge. Just so I am clear: What I am talking about is a big difference in sound quality. It's two complete different
sounds.
I also noticed that Dimitris (from dimitrisouds) has built a lavta with the same idea: http://youtu.be/AH0u_Mh76kk
Anyway...
