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buying oud in iran - transport in plane?

oudheinz - 12-4-2010 at 05:46 AM

hi,
i will travel to iran and am thinking of buying an oud. i never played an oud, so i don't know that much about it...

there are several questions:

1. what is the difference between an iranian and syrian or arabic oud?

2. which oud makers would you recommend? (i heard of mr arafati already)

3. the possibly most important question: in case i buy an oud in iran, can i take it on the plane as hand luggage or do i have to check it in as luggage? what can i do to make sure the instrument won't get damaged during the transport?

4. will there be additional customs charges when i bring the oud to europe?

thanks,
markus

Aymara - 12-5-2010 at 02:56 AM

Hi Markus,

I think, we already discussed Iranian ouds in the forum ... give the forum search a try.

I see the following problem: Many ouds are considered national cultural treasures in Iran, so the export might be forbidden. I'm not shure, if this is the case with ALL Iranian ouds, but it is definitly the case with the ouds of Iran's most famous luthiers, as far as I know.

Quote:

what can i do to make sure the instrument won't get damaged during the transport?

Buy a hard case together with the oud.

PS: Regarding question number 4 ... when importing an oud to Germany, you'll have to pay 3% import tax for string instruments plus 19% import VAT. I think it's similar in other EU countries.

PPS: Regarding question number 1 ... check THIS out and/or use the forum search ... it was discussed regularly.

Benji - 12-5-2010 at 04:05 AM

I got my Accordion with me here and i didn't pay any custom charges. Since you are importing it with yourself, I really don't think there would be any charges (simply say it's my personal stuff). To be 100% safe you can ask the person who you are gonna buy it from, to give you a fake invoice! For a hundred EUR or something, that way even if they force you to pay, you will end up paying very much less. Good luck and be on the safe side in Iran.

oudheinz - 12-5-2010 at 04:33 AM

thanks for the replies so far.
yep, hardcase seems to way to go then for the transport.
and yes, i can imagine that the import works if i just pretend it's my own personal belonging.

will check out the differences between iranian and arabic ouds now...

thanks

udmaker - 12-5-2010 at 12:32 PM

good luck

David Parfitt - 12-6-2010 at 12:36 AM

Hello Markus

I bought a tar and setar in Iran (in hard cases) and took them on the plane (Iran Air) as hand luggage without any problems. It is probably wise to keep instruments out of sight when you check in for the flight though. If you get any problems at the boarding gate, just tell them that the check-in clerk said it was ok to take them as hand luggage. I didn't have to pay any customs charges at this end, but I'm not sure if this varies from country to country in Europe?

All the best

David

oudheinz - 12-6-2010 at 02:04 AM

thanks david.
i am flying with turkish airlines. hopefully they will allow instruments as handluggage as well...

sadly, i still haven't found more info on the differences between iranian and arabic ouds...
it might just mainly be the tuning, and i am wondering whether it might become difficult to find a teacher in europe (i live in london) who teaches iranian oud (tuning).

is it possible to have the iranian oud tuned in an arabic tuning? or would that put too much strain on the instrument?

thanks,
markus

Greg - 12-7-2010 at 12:18 AM

Markus,

Different airlines have different policies on carrying instruments on board. I travelled within Turkey on Turkish Airlines and they allowed me to carry a saz on board. But Singapore Airlines would not allow me to carry it on.
Most airlines have a special checkin for fragile goods and my experience is that they do take good care of such goods.
My recommendation would be to get a very robust hard case and then wrap it thoroughly with plastic (cling) wrap. That should keep the case fairly airtight and also prevent scuffing of your new hard case.

Good Luck.

Greg

Aymara - 12-7-2010 at 12:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

sadly, i still haven't found more info on the differences between iranian and arabic ouds...

Iranian ouds belong to the family of arabic ouds

If you further research this topic, you'll find out, that most arabic ouds nowadays are very similar in design with a few exceptions:

1. Scale length: Usually arabic ouds have a scale length of 61cm, but many luthiers use 58,5cm nowadays as on Turkish ouds.

2. The body size varies a bit ... Egyptian ouds often have the largest bowls.

3. Iraqi ouds often have a floating bridge, which gives in opposition to the standard fixed bridge a tone more similar to a flamenco guitar ... HERE's an example.

You'll also notice, that the historical regional design differences have mixed more and more until today.

So don't worry ... an Iranian oud is an arabic oud and can be tuned in arabic standard tuning CFAdgc without any problems. As long as you don't try to use a Turkish tuning on a long scale length arabic oud, everything will be fine.

David Parfitt - 12-8-2010 at 04:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

thanks david.
i am flying with turkish airlines. hopefully they will allow instruments as handluggage as well...

I carried a saz and yayli tanbur on Turkish Airlines as hand luggage, so hopefully you will be ok.

All the best

David

Marina - 12-9-2010 at 01:45 AM

I always fly with my oud on me. I just put it on my back in soft padded case and DO NOT ASK anything nider pay attention on my oud. To the girl/boy on the checking
point I just nonshalantly tell, if they ask at all, that this goes to plain with me and I act like it costs 10$.
Then thay just let it go.
Before, when I did not have experience with flying with the oud I tried to explain that it is fragile & expensive, etc...Goosh, I had a troubles. Soudenly I had a security check, (checs) they would not let me take it to the cabine, I was quareling, crying, gooosh....
So, just act as you have your bag with you.

kamran - 12-13-2010 at 09:30 PM

I own an Arafati oud, and would recommend his instruments.

You're correct that by the heritage export law it may be a problem to transport a valuable instrument, but I was told that this applies to antique pieces and not to new instruments.

When I bought my oud (this was in 2002) Mr Arafati gave me a certificate of some sort, and then offered me a wooden shipping case with packing materials and suggested I place the instrument in the cargo.

The certificate was, as I recall (but my memory is hazy) in case the airport authorities asked questions about the origin of the instrument and whether it was an antique. I don't recall having to show this, but I may have.

I was a little worried about placing the oud in the cargo, but the case was purpose-made and the packing was very good, so I received it without a scratch at my destination.

Good luck, let us know how your visit goes!

spyblaster - 12-14-2010 at 06:59 AM

Hi Marcus

Persian & Arabic ouds have the same tuning. the is only a lil structural difference.

although i use sukar ouds, but i recommend you ouds made by Hamid Ghorbanzadeh, if you are looking for a fair price. a great instrument, not a great name.

check out some his works.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=17140&id=100000677195396

contact me for more details, hope to see in Tehran. you can depend on me.
amr.alipour@gmail.com

oudheinz - 12-14-2010 at 07:15 AM

thanks very much,
i will have a look.

has anyone experience with ouds made by jafar abedini? another of the better known oud makers in tehran. how is he compared to arafati in terms of price and quality?

spyblaster - 12-14-2010 at 01:28 PM

Abedini ouds are fine. the price is more fair, but Arafati ouds have higher quality. he really knows how to brace! but the fact about his ouds is that he doesn't use high quality woods on his instruments. so his instrument doesn't have a long life and the quality decreases after years. i also believe his prices are too high(starting at 1000$). i prefer Abedini's after all. his work shop is in Karaj, 40 KM far from Tehran.

oudheinz - 12-25-2010 at 10:51 AM

Hi, here is a quick update. I havent bought an oud yet, but i had my first oud lesson today (in tehran). It is indeed a lovely instrument, and i still want to buy one. The picking technique is far more difficult than i thought though. Not to mention the left hand. ;-)
Lets see, and i need to find out, if the oud makers have an oud available at all, since they dont seem to have many in stock usually...

Aymara - 12-26-2010 at 08:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

It is indeed a lovely instrument, ...

We always call it a magical instrument, which touches the soul

Enjoy your trip and good look in buying a good oud.

Hatem_Afandi - 12-26-2010 at 09:44 AM

Hi Oudheinz,
If you are still in Iran, check out Maryam Moghaddam. She makes oud cases. I didn't buy any of hers.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=17140&id=100000677195396#...

If you made it back to the US, I HIGHLY recommend Jameel's case. It is the best one around, espeically if you are interested in flying with your oud in the overhead compartment:

http://www.khalafoud.com/cases.htm

Good luck,

Hatem

On a side note, How many of us had a GUT WRENCHING experience when some IDIOT tried to push and shove a huge solid piece of luggage next to his oud?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

oudheinz - 1-10-2011 at 06:02 AM

hi,
i am back from iran, and now i am the proud owner of an oud made by jafar abedini. i spent a few hours in his workshop, and i was lucky enough that he had some ouds available, since usually he makes ouds on order. the transport on the plane was no problem at all. in fact there were loads of people with instruments on the plane. even in hard cases.

well, now it is time for me to actually learn to play the instrument ;-)

Aymara - 1-10-2011 at 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

... now i am the proud owner of an oud made by jafar abedini.

Congrats, but let me quote from a guitar forum I often visited: Instruments we don't see, don't exist

Photos please!

oudheinz - 1-10-2011 at 09:25 AM

ok then, here are some pics of the instrument... ;-)
(if i manage to upload them)

the oud is the basic/standard model, so no fancy woods used etc... mainly maple, ebony, a bit of walnut. not sure about the material for the rosettes...

Aymara - 1-10-2011 at 09:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

ok then, here are some pics of the instrument... ;-)

Aaah, it exists

A Nahat style oud ... veeery beautiful :applause:

oudheinz - 1-10-2011 at 09:43 AM

ok, what is nahat style??
i do not know much about ouds as you can see...

(on the second pic you can see abedini working on a piece of camel bone. the piece of bone is then to be placed at the end of the neck to hold the strings in place. i got another bone piece from him for a different string setup (5 pairs instead of 5 pairs and one bass string)

Aymara - 1-10-2011 at 10:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

ok, what is nahat style??

Nahat is a family name. The Nahat family had several very talented oud luthiers, which are now all dead, as far as I know.

Nahat ouds are like Gibson guitars, so that many luthiers copy that special design.

Quote:

i do not know much about ouds as you can see...

Then visit the Oud Cafe as a first step to learn more.

Quote:

the piece of bone is then to be placed at the end of the neck to hold the strings in place.

This "string holder" is called NUT, the thing that holds the strings at the other end on the soundboard is called BRIDGE.

Quote:

(5 pairs instead of 5 pairs and one bass string)

The 5+1 setup is standard arabic, but Egyptians often prefer just 5 courses. Learn more about different tuning at the Oud Cafe.

oudheinz - 1-10-2011 at 10:19 AM

ah, thanks for the infos.

nahat wasn't mentioned to me, but nariman, which was the most famous oud maker in iran (of armenian origin to be precise), and possibly the one to "copy" ouds from. (there is also an oud player named nariman, who is the most famous oud player in iran (now very old but still teaching)). his books are the "bible" for everyone learning the oud in iran.

Aymara - 1-11-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by oudheinz

..., and possibly the one to "copy" ouds from.

Who knows, maybe he already built Nahat style ouds?

Banjooud - 1-17-2011 at 07:18 AM

My oud by Abedini

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=835198oud.png

oudheinz - 1-17-2011 at 08:49 AM

yep, your's is exactly the same model (except for the wooden "pickguard", which is slightly different)

nice one!!!

(maybe one day i can post a sound sample of mine. so far i can't play well enough...)