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Sukkar Oud for Sale

The Arabic Bazaar - 6-16-2011 at 04:58 AM

New Syrian Oud by Ibrahim Sukkar. Professional quality with a great sound. Comes with fiber glass fitted case that can be locked (thus can be checked in with baggage when traveling). Made with Ebony wood.

$995 (shipping within the US included)

you can contact us at 512 533 9227 or http://www.TheArabicBazaar.com

link to the listing of the oud on our ebay store: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180494675519...

Greg - 6-16-2011 at 06:29 AM

Dear Arabic Bazaar,

Your post included a link to a website that sells all kinds of Arabic paraphernalia and services, but no musical instruments. (I removed the link)

If you have a Sukar (note the spelling) oud to sell, please provide a link to that instrument or full details on this board.

If not, please save us the time and delete your own membership.

Moderator

oud post

The Arabic Bazaar - 6-16-2011 at 10:44 AM

dear moderator

re: the link that you removed from our post, I am not sure how is it that you determined that 'we sell all kinds of paraphernelia and services' because A: we actually do not have our inventory on our website yet......this is the description of what we do sell copied from our website: "SILVER & GOLD JEWELRY . CLOTHING . BELLYDANCE COSTUMES & ACCESSORIES . RUGS .FURNITURE . ANTIQUES . GLASS & CERAMIC WARE . BRASS & LEATHER GOODS . TEXTILES . SHEESHA'S & SHEEHSA TOBACCO & ACCESSORIES . PERFUME OILS, SOAP & OTHER BEAUTY PRODUCTS . STATUETTES . LAMPS . MOSAIC WORK . MUSIC CDs, VHS TAPES & DVDs and much more...." and the 'more' includes musical instruments such as this oud we have posted on your forum.

and if you call the traditional smoking water pipes that we import from Egypt 'paraphernelia', then we are indeed guilty of that but you may want to check your terminology for other's cultural items that have existed for quite sometime.

regarding the spelling of Sukkar's ouds......I am Arabic and actually have bought this oud from Sukkar himself. he is not per say a fluent English speaker and just as it is the case for many Syrian's/Arabs who aren't, the spelling they chose for their names is not quite correct. let me explain.....the word 'Sukkar' in Arabic / his last name indeed has what is called a 'shaddeh' over the letter 'k' which means that phonetically, when you spell it, you would need to double that letter, thus the double K in my spelling.....and btw, I teach Arabic as well as the many other things that I do. now I do acknowledge that 'his' spelling for the name is Sukar so I will give you that much but....if you want to talk about 'correct' spelling of the name then it is Sukkar.

and last but not least......since we do not have our inventory online to link this post to as you demand vs giving the information on how to contact our business, which by the way has been around for over 10 years and has done business with many very happy customers, here is the the link to the instrument on our ebay store: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180494675519...

thank you and I hope I am not 'wasting' anyone's time for posting a great oud for sale on your forum and apparently opening myself and my business to being spoken to as if I am some 'third class citizen' by the moderator of this forum who would post such feedback publicly vs choosing to email me privately to clear any doubt that for whatever reason he or she ended up with having read this post.

Zein Al-Jundi, owner of The Arabic Bazaar and singer of Arabic music.

Quote: Originally posted by Greg

Dear Arabic Bazaar,

Your post included a link to a website that sells all kinds of Arabic paraphernalia and services, but no musical instruments. (I removed the link)

If you have a Sukar (note the spelling) oud to sell, please provide a link to that instrument or full details on this board.

If not, please save us the time and delete your own membership.

Moderator

Brian Prunka - 6-16-2011 at 12:43 PM

Welcome to the forums, Zein! Hopefully you intend to participate here, as a lover and performer of Arabic music.

I understand that you found Greg's post offensive, but he really said nothing wrong.

You see, this forum is for active members who wish to sell instruments to one another. It is tolerated for commercial oud dealers who do not otherwise participate to offer ouds for sale here, because the mods feel that doing so benefits the forum members, not because they owe it to dealers.
Many, even most forums do not allow commercial dealers at all, and restrict sales to only longstanding members (i.e., you cannot post in the 'for sale' section if you just joined). If you did this in most music forums, you would simply be banned without a word, or possibly have your post deleted with a much sterner warning that Greg has given here.
So, while you may be offended, Greg quite rightly is treating you as a second-class citizen here (not third-class). If your only purpose here is to post items for sale, you are a second-class citizen in this forum, by your own choice.

Further, posting an oud "for sale" without any concrete information is a waste of everyone's time, which is why Greg took a stern outlook on your post.

Many of the comments in your response to Greg would have helped the situation had they been included in your prior post.

Such as:

Quote:

our business, which by the way has been around for over 10 years and has done business with many very happy customers, here is the the link to the instrument

and

Quote:

Zein Al-Jundi, owner of The Arabic Bazaar and singer of Arabic music.

Since you didn't introduce yourself personally, then you cannot reasonably claim to have been personally insulted by Greg. He said nothing insulting anyway: If you have an oud to sell, post the link, if not delete your account so he doesn't have to. He didn't claim that you were not a legitimate business, just that if you are to make it clear that you're not a spammer/scammer. It's terse, but not insulting.

His comment on Sukar's name was a bit condescending, I agree (and your correction is welcome). It's worth considering though that people doing web searches for Sukar are likely to use that spelling.

If you spent any time on this site prior to posting, you would be aware that commercial oud dealers are constantly abusing their privileges, and be more respectful of Greg's time and effort in keeping this forum a place where people want to visit. He volunteers his time to keep the forum running.

By the way, it seems you consider "paraphernalia" to be an insulting term. It isn't. One of its meanings is "accessories and associated items". It can be applied to anything, baseball paraphernalia, musical paraphernalia, motorcycle paraphernalia, etc. Your post acknowledges that you do indeed sell all manner of items associated with the middle east, and so his choice of terms was not inaccurate.

You are certainly welcome here, but I hope you reconsider your response.

best regards,
Brian

Greg - 6-16-2011 at 02:55 PM

Dear Zein Al-Jundi,

Thank you for posting a link to the instrument, as requested.

I include your previous link here, so that others may understand my concern: http://thearabicbazaar.com/

I think I could be excused for questioning your use of that link.
It lists many items and services, but I could find no reference to the sale of musical instruments.

I also attach a copy of a Sukar Oud label. I am well aware that the Arabic language can not be properly represented by written English (I studied Arabic at a tertiary institution). But Mr Sukar apparently uses a single 'k' when representing his name in non-Arabic script. Most other re-sellers of his products, therefore use that same spelling. My note was certainly not meant to be insulting and I apologise that it appeared so.

Note: Thanks also to Brian for his explanation of the meaning of 'paraphernelia' and also for his support and appreciation for the amount of time we spend daily trying to keep these forums from being overrun by people trying to promote the sale of products of every imaginable type.

Regards,

Greg

alan_mardan - 6-17-2011 at 02:39 AM

Dear Greg and Brian Prunka

I have to say that i am so glad to have read both of your answers to Zein. It really annoyed me when i tried to open the link and suddenly very surprising website appeared. I tried a lot to serch through his sub-links to find the oud but unfortunately i couldn't.

I is very useful to have such a good control over your content to know what is going on, just makes me personally happy and motivated to visit your website daily.

I hope that zein does not take this comment personally against him, as am only explaining my appreciation to your quality towards others.

Cheers
Alan

Greg - 6-17-2011 at 05:36 AM

Dear Alan,

I sincerely appreciate your comment and your support. The moderators try always to be balanced and objective, and to avoid heavy handedness. Mike spent many hours, over the past couple of weeks, modifying the membership procedures, so we could be more pro-active in keeping inappropriate posts to a minimum. Previously, we found ourselves regularly deleting posts, after they had hit the forums. With the new systems, it is our hope that most of those posts will never see the light of day.

These forums will always be an attractive target for those who see them as nothing more than another opportunity to promote and sell their products.
In endeavouring to stem the growing tide of such people and to keep these forums relevant, we hope we make the right decisions more often than not.

Thanks again.

Greg