dubstep011 - 8-28-2011 at 04:58 AM
Hello everyone!
I too as many many oud and music lovers have been following and spending alot of reading time on this forum.
As my first post I'll give ya'll a proper but a short presentation.
My name is Ahmad, originally from Egypt but studying my master's degree in Sweden, as in realtime 
I also fell inlove with the sound of the oud that always bursts thru my eardrum everytime i listen to farid el atrash, oum kalthoum and abdel halim
hafez.
So, that brings me to this..
I've been playing the ordinary guitar for some time now and want to try something different. Because I live in Sweden and will not travel anywhere
for some time and got a tough economic situation I therefor cant spend alot of money on my first oud.
I been searching thru whole scandinavia and found a guy here who has this oud. But he bought it from a store that no longer exists who were selling
ethnical instruments of all kind. So he got no clue where its orginally from, also do I.
So please help me collect som information of how "rookie/cheap" this thing is and thereafter helping me with a fair price for it?
Any tip or anything is greatly appricated!
spyrosc - 8-28-2011 at 03:30 PM
It's a Turkish oud, and it might be good. The picture is blurry but the pegs look well-made which is a clue as to the overall quality. It has a
mizraplik that looks a bit like Haluk Eraidin's but it is not. It could be a beginner's or mid-range quality.
How much is he asking for in US $ ?
Spyros C.
Music - 8-28-2011 at 04:18 PM
I can't tell you anything about Ouds specifically- and I'm sure that Ouds have unique quality considerations, since so many of them are totally
handmade- but there are some general philosophies about instrument buying that relate a beginner purchasing his first Oud, Guitar or Oboe alike.
(For the record, I'm an editor at FingerstyleGuitarists.com - Fingerstyle Guitar )
One thing you should beware of is falling into the trap of over-emphasizing "technical theory" about the instruments- details that mean very little
when it comes to actually playing them, how well the sound, etc.
I'm sure there are very bad Ouds, just like there are very bad guitars, but as we see in the Guitar world, there are a group of people who spend more
time discussing the technical details of the instruments than they do actually playing them. This causes them to heavily emphasize certain impractical
technical theories about the instruments themselves that mean little, if anything, when it comes to making actually music with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis
While I'm not certain, I would wager a beginning Oudist should follow the same general progression as is best practice for a beginning guitarist.
First, find an entry level instrument of low cost that plays well in your hands. Don't worry about the theories people might have about that
particular brand or if it's 'as good' as instruments costing much more. Play it and if you like it, buy it. You're a beginner, the differences between
a $200 instrument and a $2000 instrument won't matter to you.
If at some point in the future you decide that playing Oud is a great passion, then move up hard, into a premier level instrument. Don't waste any
time going from a beginner instrument to an intermediate instrument to a good instrument to a great instrument. Start with an entry level instrument
to see if the Oud is going to be a part of your life or not. If it isn't, no worries. You haven't spent much money. If it becomes a life passion,
bypass the intermediate steps and go straight to a premier instrument.
Sorry for the long post- especially by a new guy who doesn't know much about Ouds- but the general philosophy is something I've witnessed for years in
the guitar world, where people overemphasize trivial technical details about the instrument instead of spending the same amount of energy actually
playing them.
I only say this because I cannot count how many times I've sat amongst groups of players who talked about tonewoods and bracing and manufacturing
techniques and sting tensions and resonance theory and fret height and whether this set of tuners is better than that set of tuners, yet when they
pick up an instrument and start to play it, there's not much worth talking about.
fernandraynaud - 8-28-2011 at 05:13 PM
Measure the action, the height of the strings at the neck-body junction. If it's over 4mm and you can't lower it by rotating the string loops downward
at the bridge, forget it. On a Turkish oud it should be more like 2.5 mm. If it's too high you will not enjoy playing it, it won't sound right, and it
will generally get worse over time, with no easy way to fix it. If it's low, you can usually rotate the loops up enough.
Does it sound "live"? Ouds are very thin and light, and should vibrate a lot if played strongly with a pick. The soundboard should be very thin and
flat. A bad oud will be thick and inert.
There should be a label inside, that can help determine theoretical value. Just looking at these fuzzy images, no way to tell what it is. Offer the
guy 150 euros if it passes the above criteria, it's what a decent student Turkish oud goes for, less in Egypt. It could be worth more where you are.
dubstep011 - 8-28-2011 at 07:01 PM
Great! I was expecting these type of replies.
You all have stated good arguments and opinions about how I should continue. I appreciate it!
Spyros C, I think youre right about it beeing a Turkish oud. He's asking aprox 160€/250$ for it, quite much i believe for a non labeled
instrument.
Music, you got a couple good points! I actually agree with you. The thing is I can't help myself look past by that picture, "I have a need to
know".
fernandraynaud, good straight forward information! I'll remember that.
It's sound alright, the strings seems though sound a bit unusual, not sure what brand they are, but he says they've never been changed since he bought
the instrument. So I guess it's a cheap brand.
It's fairly light and feels good and doesn't sound "buzzy" or loose when I play it randomly.
Overall pretty much everything up here is atleast twice more expensive, especially these type of instruments.
A Qanun goes for as much as 4000$, money well spent? Im not sure about that. Not as a amateur player I guess.
I've been travelling to Egypt for the past 3 years and been there in 3 month periods, I don't understand how I could missed buying one while I was
there.. Frustrating now when I'm totally hooked up with so much at the moment theres no chance for visiting Egypt for the next years to come..
I'm going to buy it and hope for the best. I'll pick it up during this week and post a video demonstrating the sound.
*UPDATE*
I just got of the phone with a "oud builder" here i Malmo (sweden).
He tells me he's been playing oud for 30 years and built them for 15 years.
I asked him and he could sell me a good quality oud for exactly as much as the first one mentioned. I've heard his ouds and they sound okey. I posted
pictures with his handcrafts. But which lane should I go with? The un labeled oud or the other guy (builder)?
fernandraynaud - 8-29-2011 at 12:42 PM
For the same money !? Getting a decent oud for $250 is not commonplace in "the West". I would of course go with the builder. Why? Because you can
always go back and have it touched up, bitch and moan about this and that, whereas your unlabeled wonder is clearly an "as is" sale. Besides, you
might be able to get an Egyptian-sounding oud if you prefer that. It looks like he makes lutes too, judging by the light colored oud. Can you go to
Malmo to try them out, or is it far away?
dubstep011 - 8-29-2011 at 03:23 PM
fernandraynaud, well I guess youre right, I can't argue on that really. He sounded quite exited when i called him and extremely kind thru the whole
conversation and told me that his price range on the instruments he makes falls at 700-2000$, but he could help me out and sell me a good intermediate
oud for 250-300$. Good old fashion kinda man I say! In the end im just looking for a good oud to start with that has a correct setup so it doesnt slow
down my learningprocess any way.
That bright oud from the picture also caught my eye. I prefer them in darker material.
Far? It's like 7 hours from where I live, but.. I found a spot in my schedule and booked a seat on a train, it leaves in a couple of days..
Anyhow, Im taking my hd camera with me and ill try to catch as many oud's I can and samples on each particular instrument to show ya'll.
BaniYazid - 8-30-2011 at 08:28 AM
Hi
I have an oud with the same rosette, it's a little toy oud 44,7 cm scale length. The sound is loud and clear and the woods of the back are very nice,
unfinished soundboard, no label. The big problem I have with this oud (and all the cheapo ouds I have) is the action.
So, a beginner advice, try it before you buy it.
Good luck
dubstep011 - 8-30-2011 at 04:30 PM
Hi BaniYazid, well that was something of a surprise.
I'll do so, and thanks alot for the tip and picture. It Helps!
fernandraynaud - 8-31-2011 at 12:25 PM
The plastic rosettes are not made by the luthier. So any number of oudmakers might buy bags of the same ones. Dubstep, just so you know, ask your
local seller to measure the scale, string length from nut to bridge. An Arabic oud is usually 60-62 cm, a Turkish is usually 58.5 cm. The same strings
can be used, but the Turkish is tuned a whole tone higher, which works out to about the same tension. Clearly 44 cm would be a child's oud.
It would be unusual for a musician who is interested not to get very deeply involved with the oud. You probably should not aim for a "beginner
instrument" but the best you can afford. We all start out getting a bad one, and maybe it's an important way to learn, but some might get discouraged.
Just make sure whatever you get has a low enough action.