hello to all if people are wondering why im online so much its not im a bludger but i have severely broken my leg and have plenty of time on my hands
as i canot work so im trying to improve my playing wich is not very good anyway but i have only been playing for about 7-8 months i can play some
doulabs and a couple of fayrouz songs .
Please if somebody can help me. Im trying to learn to play songs by listening and im getting nowhere and fast can any body give me some tips.
littleseb - 9-1-2011 at 01:26 AM
hey mate,
my tip would be: learn your maqams, study 'em proper, you need to know them inside out, and you need to know how to spot and name maqams when hearing
them. that way you will be able to easily re-produce songs.
cheers,
sebfernandraynaud - 9-1-2011 at 03:56 AM
One of the problems self-teaching has is lack of models. It's very easy to to lose motivation. I would suggest the Learn Maqamat DVD by OudProf
because it gives you specific things to work with, namely showing the Maqamat and then at least one example. Whenever you lose focus, just load up the
DVD, pick a maqam and live it for a while. Then go look for more examples. I dunno, it works for me. If you have an ability to improvise music, I
would focus on taqsim. That's a great great form. As you learn a maqam, spend a few days listening to pieces and taqsim in that maqam, and improvising
in that maqam. Who cares if it fits the way other people do it, you will never play the same way, play the way you feel that maqam, it has to come
from YOUR heart.
dkhoury35 - 9-1-2011 at 06:04 PM
Thanx for the reply guys thats very helpful M.Labakeh - 9-1-2011 at 11:25 PM
I totally agree, taqsim is the best way to improve your playing!
Wish you the best my friendDavid.B - 9-2-2011 at 09:46 AM
Hi dkhoury35,
I started to play only by ear since 2006. Before my teacher gave to me scores, I recorded him with a MiniDisc recorder : at first a simple version
with the name of the notes sung, then he played with 'spices'. My own challenge was to play like him : "what a human can do, you can do it!" I used to
split his 'spicy' versions with the MD, really useful at the beginning. You just have to push the button where you need to start until you get it in
your fingers. At the beginning it was my method : scores + ornamented versions recorded. I was working on the songs until I get to play them at the
same time as the ornamented version. But this was the ultimate point, before I had to read the notes in time with a metronome, to play with the oud in
time, to play with the oud in time + the notes sung, etc. In other words, I reproduced exactly what my teacher did. It's better to mention that when I
was playing music I stop working for six months or more.
But, in my opinion, scores are a dead end. Very difficult to memorize. So I took a CD, I chose it carefully. A oud tuned like mine : c (262 Hz) g (196
Hz) D (147 Hz) AA (110 Hz) FF (87 Hz) CC (65 Hz), a sound clear without effects, old school style, I chose taqasim with some percussion but not during
the whole CD. I chose George Abyad CD, I've stopped on this one but I played by ear a few tunes by Anour Brahem, I think this is not a good idea
because the sound is not clear, it means you won't be able to hear when the risha attacks or comes back for example. I realized this after I invest in
a CD player (YBA YC 201) and monitor speakers (Yamaha MSP5). This choice is not a hazard, I tested many materials with my CD in order to get a
'surgical' sound.
How to proceed with this magical gear? Note after note! Be really patient ... I mean, if a whole phrase is impossible to memorize go down to a couple
of notes, if it's not enough just one note. Play this note with your oud while the CD is turning and warm up the remote
After five years I'm able to hear a note and feel the position on the oud quite easily and I can memorize a whole phrase before I test it with the
recording. Off course I can understand ornaments, but here again, it's a question of training. For example : at 00:49 on this track -> http://www.mikeouds.com/audio/real/george_abyad_shat_araban.rm I was playing it in the standard way, with the hand near the nut, but I was never
satisfied, the sound was not the same. I needed to focus on each note Ab G F# in my mind and try many times on the oud before I find : tremolo Ab G F#
glissando G -> Ab -> G on the 3rd course!
Finally, I read books about theory in order to understand pitches of notes, modulations, accidentals , 'shrunken' augmented second, etc.
This is my way, but you can do the same with a good teacher in less time.
Now I'm split in two, should I find a teacher or should I experiment with the maqam as only guide? The last choice brings you to a kind of void,
destructive, but so creative ...
PS. Don't forget, if it's hard it means that you are improving your playing fernandraynaud - 9-2-2011 at 01:35 PM
Of course a CD player is one way. Using your PC is even better. Get Reaper, for instance, or one of the other DAWs or audio editors that has time
stretching algorithms, so you can slow down the playing even to 1/4 speed and retain the same pitch. Load up some examples and set the loop points
over a section. Cycle it and practice. Listen to how nicely this works (done in Reaper, free download):
Attachment: Farido9x1.wav (604kB)
This file has been downloaded 205 times
Attachment: Farido9x1slo.wav (862kB)
This file has been downloaded 189 times
But personally I don't know if playing from scores, or playing casbah favorites matters at all. I'm no expert in Sharqi music, but I believe getting
the spirit of the maqamat is more important, and for that you need to 1- know what the Maqam's notes are and where they are on the fingerboard, 2-
hear examples to get the feel and traditional "route", 3- explore other maqamat, starting with those that are rooted on the same tetrachord, as
modulation options, and spend some time with those, and relatives of those. For all this the OudProf DVD is hard to beat, at the price of a single
lesson. The spreadsheet he offers is very helpful to see related maqamat.
And I would try to just play and play a lot, improvise whatever goes through your mind as you listen and practice the maqamat and explore. You'll
likely find you have internalized a LOT.
I'm curious, does anyone who is more knowledgeable in Taqsim think this is all wrong and very bad advice?
Now I should clarify that I have never been very interested in reproducing other peoples' music -- there are plenty of great players, performers on
various instruments, and I'm not going to be one of them. What I can do (that makes sense to me), is to make a different music. Music is a way of
saying things that cannot be said in words. I rather think this can be very rewarding, even for those who aren't technically very proficient. David.B - 9-3-2011 at 01:21 AM
That's not a CD player, this is The CD player! I'm not very keen on lowering the speed, it does not sound natural. To me, the best to memorize is
something as close as possible to reality. By lowering the speed you'll miss many subtleties ...
Oriental music is about imitation. As a maqam is not a scale, you have to memorize melody-types. After many years, these melodies will be what you
know about maqamat. Practice comes first, when you have intellectualized what happens you will have your own 'theory'. To play a maqam is not
creative, it is this process described above that is.
dkhoury35, you must give to you targets. Here we're talking about our own targets and we don't even know what you really want to play. fernandraynaud - 9-3-2011 at 04:25 AM
David, of course there's distortion if you slow it down. But you can't play it unless you know what notes are being played, and at full speed it's
harder to follow. Isn't listening in sections to study examples, and starting out playing a piece slower, a standard technique in learning by ear?
So your view is that the only way to go is to spend years learning the specific pieces.
Which is "this process described above" you refer to as "creative"?
Isn't listening in sections to study examples, and starting out playing a piece slower, a standard technique in learning by ear?
I agree to divide the piece into sections, that's what I did with the MiniDisc player. It is even easier with the computer ... What is useful in the
process of memory is to mentally record a phrase or even just one note! As going too fast you remember the sound you are playing in your head and you
seek on the instrument. For a phrase, you slow down what you have saved, mentally, to pinpoint the sound you seek. At the beginning, the best is to
work with pairs of notes ab, bc, cd, etc.
We are the product of our history. The few times my teacher asked me to play along with him, he played with an instrument other than the oud and he
never slowed down, he made loops. I had to take the plunge.
He slowed down the sound with old tape recorders. But his goal was not to slow down the music, it was lowering the tone for not having to retune the
oud. The result is that he always plays popular songs (like Oum Kalthoum's ones) a bit slower. Nevertheless, it sounds great too
So I memorize a phrase at is normal speed but I need to play it slowly until my fingers are able to make it at the normal speed. Then I confirm by
playing along with the recording.
So your view is that the only way to go is to spend years learning the specific pieces.
It depends on what you are looking for. If I were able to study music without working 35h per week to earn money, I would need about 6 months / 1 year
to study a taqsim like the one I'm currently analyzing with you (RAST/GEORGE ABYAD). If you want to play popular songs just take a score and add some
ornaments ... Here again you'll need years of training to integrate the rules of the maqam, even instinctively.
In my opinion the best way is the way described in "ENSEIGNEMENT ET ORALITE A LA VEILLE DU XXIe SIECLE.zip" that I've already upload in many posts ...
My way is an obscure ersatz.
Practice comes first, when you have intellectualized what happens you will have your own 'theory'.
Music is not the subject, it is the master. You are the subject. The music creates you. This is my opinion about Sharqi music and this is not
categorical.
Finally, I just felt an increase in my playing and I share my method to someone who asks. Best to find its own way.fernandraynaud - 9-3-2011 at 09:50 AM
And i'm the one who's the mad scientist?David.B - 9-3-2011 at 10:08 AM
Don't worry, the majority thinks like you, but it's too long to write it down DoggerelPundit - 9-3-2011 at 11:50 AM
dkhoury35,
My 2 cents:
What you can sing, you can more easily learn to play.
The advice above is certainly sound and should be followed. However I know of no law saying you must begin the oud with songs Arabic, Turkish,
Armenian, etc. You might find it easier to play songs you can already sing, i.e. the ones you grew up with. You could branch out from there. If you
grew up with songs of Eastern culture, so much the better (and easier).
With every Turkish Semaisi I have learned, I learned to whistle it first. That's extreme I suppose, but I am an achingly slow learner.David.B - 9-4-2011 at 06:26 AM
Totally agree DoggerelPundit!
Here we slide towards the off-topic, but that's what I like on Mike's Oud :
At 5:00 -> "To welcome, here we are. (It's part ...) This music is very difficult to explain, and to the Arab tradition, there is a lot of
indiscipline and ... for the performance and learning require a lot ; and a lot of discipline, for ... in search for a part of adventure, because the
taqsim is very adventurous, never really fixed, but it relates to spotting very severe, it scares us. And we give free rein (when ...) to the maqam
when we are solicited, or by a string, or by an idea, that's all."
We give free rein to the maqam when we are solicited, or by a string, or by an idea ...
