Mike's Oud Forums

A sukar oud for $180?

naddad - 11-16-2011 at 06:35 AM

A couple of local stores here in Lebanon sell a bunch of Sukar ouds for $180. I haven't checked the model numbers but will do next time I go.

If you were to rank the quality of the different Sukar models, how would you rank them? (e.g. is 213 a better oud than 1?)

Do the prices on this website reflect the model's quality? For example why is model 1 cheaper than model 213?

Alfaraby - 11-16-2011 at 09:14 AM

Ibrahim Sukkar's basic ouds leave the factory for 90-100 $ or so, therefore a 100 % profit is quite fare, especially with no shipping expenses between the bordering countries : Lebanon & Syria.
The deference between Sukkar's models has no effect on the sound issue, they all sound almost the same. It's the shape, the woods & the craftsmanship that make the deference.

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

charlie oud - 11-16-2011 at 11:13 AM

Yes, I would agree with Alfaraby. I have a Sukar though I've only played a few they seem to be similar in sound.

Luttgutt - 11-16-2011 at 01:19 PM

Hi guys!

With all respect.. I have owned 10 different Sukar ouds (I still have 6 of them).

And they ALL sound TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

I really don't understand all this talk about Sukar ouds sounding the same!

Number 1 models (and those similar to 1 in wood chose)sound more or less similar, yes, but not the rest!

Anyway, I love Sukar ouds :-)

4 of the Sukar ouds I have sound BETTER than my Ghadban, my Nahats, my Matta, and my Khalifa etc...

But I have to say that those 4 Sukar ouds are Costum made for me :D

Have fun oud guys




naddad - 11-16-2011 at 03:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Ibrahim Sukkar's basic ouds leave the factory for 90-100 $ or so, therefore a 100 % profit is quite fare, especially with no shipping expenses between the bordering countries : Lebanon & Syria.
The deference between Sukkar's models has no effect on the sound issue, they all sound almost the same. It's the shape, the woods & the craftsmanship that make the deference.

Yours indeed
Alfaraby


If the wood and the shape are different across models then shouldn't they sound different?

Alfaraby - 11-17-2011 at 01:56 AM

Yes dear, they should, but a bit.
However the most important element in producing the sound is the soundboard, and this does not vary in Sukkar's ouds, therefore they sound almost the same, like brothers having almost the same voice, but speak differently :)

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Luttgutt - 11-18-2011 at 04:02 AM

...Then my Sukar ouds are not in the same "family"..
or at least they have different mothers :))

.... because the sound does not resamble at all...
Or maybe I am totally death :shrug:
Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Yes dear, they should, but a bit.
However the most important element in producing the sound is the soundboard, and this does not vary in Sukkar's ouds, therefore they sound almost the same, like brothers having almost the same voice, but speak differently :)

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

naddad - 11-22-2011 at 03:03 PM

Went back to one of the stores, checked the label, they're Sukar 1's.

fernandraynaud - 11-23-2011 at 05:05 AM

I have 3 Sukars and although they have a very similar bracing and construction, and so the differences would appear to be cosmetic, they have very different personalities. Of course, after being "broken in". And then there are floating bridge models, fiberglass electric, toilet-seat electric, and countless custom and semi-custom variants like Luttgutt's smaller body ones. Sukar appears to be one of the least communicative luthiers on the planet. Nobody is sure of anything, myths abound.

The Model 1s vary a lot in the wood used for the bowl. It's as if the Model 1 were the catch-all of the available wood. Some use alternating light and medium wood, not sure exactly what, it said something in Arabic about the woods as I recall on the Sukar web site. Others use a darker reddish wood that might be a walnut, but who knows. What is Zan wood, by the way? Some have a long fingerboard, others short. They all use 15:1 dyed olive wood pegs. The scale on mine is 615 mm, the fingerboard runs all the way to the soundhole, the bowl is all reddish walnut (?), medium weight. The sound is very loud and especially strong in the midrange. It does very well with PVF on the plain strings. The fingerboard is a medium colored wood that I coated with a "tung oil" finish much like a gunstock Tru Oil that is holding up very nicely: no grooves after more than two years' hard playing. I just refreshed it. They all have the Sukar adjustable neck, whose range of adjustment, compared to a Fadi Matta's, often leaves something to be desired. Soundboards are plain, unfinished. A little shellac French Polish on the soundboard doesn't hurt the sound.

The other models have their specific woods, sound and personalities. Though it's true that they are related, it's not that they sound the same. The model 14/214 is heavier, 600 mm scale, same body size, and the fingerboard, pegs and bowl appear to be ebony. Shellac (French polish) is applied over a dye to give a shiny black look, but the black finish is very delicate, easily messed up, and very hard to touch up. Not for the faint of heart. It's got a very powerful and rich bass sound, I like it a lot. Oh, I see they have vanished from Sukar's site, probably because of the difficulties with the black finish, so they are now rarissimo for sure. There may be some other ebony-bowled models available. The 12/212 is very light, 600 mm, more finely finished than most, with thin ribs and light "spacers", but not rococo decorated, sort of the aristocrat of the bunch, with the strongest high-end sound. Where a 14 loves low tuning, and higher action, the 212 flourishes tuned a little high, low action, with bright strings, Ajam.