Jono Oud N.Z - 2-20-2012 at 12:19 AM
This piece was classified under Huseyni previously.
(Alki Ufki (1610–1675).
There is no record of a maqam Arazbar in the Ali Ufki collection.
There seems to been some problems classifying the maqam of this piece.
It certainly doesn't resemble Huseyni too much..
The piece comes very close to Cantemir's description of Arazbar.
The other close ones were Kardan (Gerdâniye) and Baba Tahir.
Any other ideas what the mode of this 16th cent piece could be in?
spartan - 2-22-2012 at 10:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Si9TooXuk
this is the Arazbar Bashraf played from Bezmara Ensemble.
BUT this is definately NOT the Arazbar maqam as we know it now.
In this Bashraf I saw a strong Rast on Neva pitch and then the melody ends on Dugah pitch, BUT without the Ajam note...
Jono Oud N.Z - 2-24-2012 at 01:23 PM
Hi.
For sure.
Here is the Cantemir description of the Arazbar of his day:
'Arazbar begins on gerdaniye and descends like gerdaniye; it touches acem and hisar, dwells on segah, descends to dugah and rast and then returns and
proceeds like beyati with finials dugah'.
As you can see the Arazbar piece does not exactly fit this description, all though some of the structure matches up.
No sign of either an ajam or hisar note though..
There was great difficulty categorising the maqam of this piece.
adamgood - 2-24-2012 at 07:15 PM
Is this your transcription for from another source?
Jono Oud N.Z - 2-25-2012 at 12:19 PM
Hi.
This is not my transcription, just a transposition from the Turkish sheet music to Western / Arabic pitch.
adamgood - 2-25-2012 at 01:22 PM
Heads up I don't know Arazbar makam but...Ignoring the two pieces from Corci, have a look at these Arazbar pieces:
http://www.adamgood.com/turkish_nota/rep.php?makam=6&sort=form_...
There's quite a bit of continuity between the seyirs. Notice the E 1 koma flat in the key signature and then the flip to E 4 koma flat when bringing
in F#. This suggests at least to me there's a bit of Huzzam taste in there. And like Huzzam I'm sure that Eb likes to be played very high (somewhere
nearing almost E 1 koma flat). The high B 4 koma flat is also used in Huzzam and Karcigar.
Especially take a look at Selim III's piece, he's good for a "modern" take.
It's typical, when I read these old pieces from Kantemir's book I can never find much relation to makams as I know or in this case don't know 
Adam
Jono Oud N.Z - 2-26-2012 at 09:20 PM
Hi.
Very interesting...
The Huzzam aspect is a particularly interesting aspect.
I am interested in a clear definition of modern Arazbar too.
The scale in Cantemirs day was basically the 17 note medieval scale not the modern Turkish one.
The 1 comma flat intervals were played as neutrals back then, like modern Arabic and Persian classical musics.
The intonation of Saba was like the modern Arabic version too, with the semitone flat fourth.
Part of the reason I am interested in this old music is because it was during a time when there were not the modern distinctions of Turkish, Arabic
and Persian classical musics. The maqam based music seems to have been more universal back then.
The basic maqamat like Rast, Huseyni, Segah etc seem basically the same with the older pieces, but some of the lesser known maqamat back then can
certainly be quite different with regards to seyir etc..
Nahawand/Nihavend, Saba and Neva are examples where the structure and seyir have changed somewhat.
Excellent resource of repertoire you have too Adam!!
Very good work, I have had your site bookmarked for years.
I am just beginning some research into this early music and really appreciate these discussions.
spartan - 2-27-2012 at 12:35 AM
about Arazbar mine approach is from the 2 pieces (bashraf and samai ) of Corci (means simply George!)
In fact there were two Georges and both were blind and played violin.
They both lived in the late 18th century, one of them had introduced the violin (sine keman) from the taverns to the court.
Anyway we dont know wich George is in its composition!
Maybe I' m wrong but if I simplify the Arazbar I have in mind , it's a Rast on Cargah pitch and Beyati on Neva pitch as a mixture.
Cargah pitch surely a dominant note I think.
The maqam returns back like Ussak-Beyati on the Dugah tonic , so there is no more beyati on Neva, but Nahawand on Neva.
There is a modulation like Hijaz on Neva (or Nikriz on Cargah pitch)
I hope I didnt confused more the maqam!
Arazbar is a forgotten maqam nowadays though.... it is usually a modulation on Hijazkar or Kurdili Hijazkar
Jono Oud N.Z - 2-27-2012 at 04:11 PM
Hi.
Thanks!
I just found this webpage that confirms your description of modern Arazbar.
It is a interesting and appealing maqam.
http://www.eksd.org.tr/makamlar/arazbar_makami.php
This is a good website!
There are lots of maqamat and pieces..
Thanks for the info' on the composers Spartan.
Incredible knowledge.
This piece is in Gulizar but has the same Rast and Nikriz aspect on Cargah as Arazbar.
The change of jins is very effective in this piece.
I have a recording of Lalezar Ensemble playing this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Dancing-Boys-Lalezar-Ensemble/dp/B00004...
