Jody Stecher - 2-20-2012 at 09:21 AM
I have been listening (over and over) to Udi Hrant's Neva Hicaz taksim, recorded long ago for the Perfectaphone disc and appearing as the opening
track on volume 2 of "Udi Hrant/ the early recordings" issued as a CD by Traditional Crossroads.
I'm a bit uncertain about what is actually going on here. "Neva Hicaz" as played here does not seem to be Shadaraban by another name as has been
suggested on this forum. Neither does it seem to be Hicaz/Hijaz centered on Neva. Sure enough there are Hicaz phrases, and the central pitch is indeed
found on the neva sting (number 2, second highest) but the absolute pitch is around B. It sounds as though Udi Hrant starts and finishes not on the
open string but at the pitch an octave above string 4. I think I hear the open string a few times at A. But maybe not. I suppose it's possible that a
small oud tuned very high was used. The recording does not sound speeded up either. When I listen to Hrant's Setaraban taxim (#7 on volume 1) it is
clear that that here he starts on the *open* Neva string. The sonority is quite different. But then it was a different occasion with different
microphones, maybe different oud (and absolute pitch at about B flat this time). Can anyone offer some insight? Whatever is going on musically, it
sure is magnetic. Every time I listen I am drawn in.
mavrothis - 2-20-2012 at 12:38 PM
Hi,
Upon listening to this taksim again, it really seems to me that he was playing a Hicaz taksim in his playing style/approach on the Neva string (open
second).
There are a decent number of old Amane (Gazel) recordings where this kind of categorization seems to happen too, using a note name from Bolahenk
tuning to identify a transposed tonic. After a quick re-listen, my opinion is he is simply playing Hicaz a fourth higher than the "usual" tonic (his
tonic is the open 2nd string rather than the open 3rd).
This taksim is a great example of his passionate playing, and how to emphasize leading tones for effect. 
Jody Stecher - 2-20-2012 at 12:55 PM
Thanks Mavrothis. It certainly sounds as you describe but the absolute pitch of B presented some uncertainty. So how did he get is oud tuned so high
without the oud exploding or at least the strings breaking? Maybe light strings? Yes, this is a memorable recording and certain passages are some of
the most vocal-like string playing I have heard anywhere. It's close to how *he* sings, anyway.
mavrothis - 2-20-2012 at 01:02 PM
Hi again,
It is very likely that the recording is just misrepresenting the tuning - most of these old recordings sound like they are about a whole step up from
where they were actually performed. If this digital recording is from Traditional Crossroads (and I think it is) it probably wasn't tuned down, while
most of the old archive recordings coming out of Turkey (like Kalan) do retune most of their recordings as far as I can tell.
In any case, the actual pitch isn't that important, since it is clear in this recording that his tonic is on his open second. At least to my ears.
Thanks for giving me a reason to listen to this taksim again.
m
Jody Stecher - 2-20-2012 at 01:51 PM
If the pitch is raised on an analog recording then the speed will also be proportionately increased. That doesn't seem to be the case here. The
phrasing sounds natural. I've listened again and have confirmed that you are right that the pitch to which he keeps returning is indeed the *open*
neva string. So I'll have to surmise that either his strings were lighter, the scale length was shorter, or that he broke a lot of strings. Or ouds.
ameer - 2-20-2012 at 02:04 PM
In the first half of the century it was common for Arab oud players to restring and retune to a different standard than G which later became the
standard. I don't know if the same phenomenon was common in Turkish music but it would certainly explain things.
adamgood - 2-20-2012 at 08:26 PM
Jody I just dropped the speed of the recording down 1 whole step and believe that the recording is off but almost that much, it sounds more like Hrant
at that speed...if it drags a little bit then figure his tuning was a bit sharp on this particular recording compared to a440.
His Saba taksim from Vol. I is running too fast as well, same ballpark of 1 whole tone off.
The "Neva Hicaz" naming convention is very confusing and Mav is right on with everything he writes. My experience playing with some Turkish musicians
is regardless of what tuning system we'd be in, when we're fine tuning instruments to one another they would refer to the pitches by their Bolahenk
(yerinden) names so we're we'd say "let me hear your A pitch" they asked to hear "Neva" or "Re" though our piece was going to be 4 tones lower from
Bolahenk. Kind of nuts but you get used to it. So as Mav says this is Hicaz from Neva and on top of that the recording is out of tune
Maybe playing from this position was more common for udis that played as lead instrument? Kadri Sencelar's recordings are around these positions as
well.
I don't know much about this but Hrant seems to have played around a bit with different tunings at least on the few recordings that are available
commercially. Check out his Huzzam taksim on Vol. II of the Early Recordings, sounds to me like this from high pitch to low:
d
a
E
D
A
And on some Saba recordings he'll have an open G on a lower string an octave below his cargah note. Another fasil recording I have of him has him
playing from Kiz, 4 tones below bolahenk.
Adam
Jody Stecher - 2-20-2012 at 10:24 PM
Got it. Thanks, Adam. I listened to the Huzzam and about 2:30 into the recording one hears what sounds like two open mid-range strings a step apart.
This would correspond to your idea of D and E strings. One question: are you saying that Hrant was playing an oud with only 5 courses?
adamgood - 2-20-2012 at 11:04 PM
Actually I've only assumed that on the recordings he only uses 5 strings, that's what I hear. I've never heard anything that sounds like a "6th"
string or anything lower than an open A or open G.
Anyone else found anything different?