Mike's Oud Forums

Looking for an Algerian Mandole

Giorgioud - 3-10-2012 at 04:28 AM

Dear oudists, salaamelekoum,
I am looking for an Algerian Mandole, also known as Chaabi Mandole or Kabilie Mandole. Preferably in the UK area. I cannot seem to find it anywhere in London, so I am wondering if any of you out there has such an instrument who wants to sell it for a fair price, or to exchange it for the following: An Epiphone solid-body electric guitar, a Cougar imitation Stratocaster electric guitar, a Stagg classical guitar (according to the price, the perspective seller can come away with two or more of these items), and a Sayed bin Fathy Amin oud. I am just interested in fishing out for a price, I have a very limited budget and I am curious in finding out how much it costs, that's all. Also, asking for a suggestion: how about buying a Blue Moon Cittern and fit it with additional frets to play the quarter tones like the Algerian Mandole? They seem to have the same shape and the same sort of resonant deep sound. Are the strings the same? Are they tuned the same?
Regards
Giorgio

Danielo - 3-10-2012 at 04:36 AM

Hi Giorgio,

it is very easy to find mandoles in France on the used market, it may worth the trip :

http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_musique/offres/ile_de_france...

regards,

Dan

Giorgioud - 3-10-2012 at 05:19 AM

Thanks Dan,
very much appreciated. Interesting mandoles there, good prices. I might be tempted, even though the trip to France is not going to be cheap.............Although I will still be loooking here in the UK, I might get lucky, who knows?
But thanks a lot, take care
Giorgio

Jody Stecher - 3-10-2012 at 07:18 AM

The norm for Algerian Mandole seems to be 12 frets to the octave.

Quote: Originally posted by Giorgioud  

how about buying a Blue Moon Cittern and fit it with additional frets to play the quarter tones like the Algerian Mandole?

Giorgioud - 3-10-2012 at 04:27 PM

Thanks Jody for the clarification, I think they put an extra fret on the second and the fourth fret (right in the middle) in order to play the quarter tones on the first four positions, although many virtuosos have also an extra fret in the middle of the sixth fret.......quite ingenious really, I mean I know there are 4 or 5 microtones to the tone, but they rarely get to get played.......so they just bother with the most important quarter tones.......

Jody Stecher - 3-10-2012 at 07:18 PM

This is intriguing. All the mandols I had seen in person and in photos had frets that match the guitars, mandolins, banjos (and the tones of piano and keyboards) that mandol seems to typically keep company with. So I checked it out on Youtube and sure enough there were some mandols that matched your description. So how does that work out when the mandol player plays a "half flat" and the other instruments can't?

Giorgioud - 3-11-2012 at 05:56 AM

I think that in that specific case the Algerian Mandole is used as the only instrument, without accompanyment, but in case there are other instruments, I think (it's only a guess based on observation) the musical phrase which contains the half-flat is played by instruments that can play it (such as, for example, violins, qanoons, ouds, etc), while, for that passage only, other instruments which can play only flats and sharps like mandolins, banjos, keyboards remain silent, ready to join in when the accompanyment requires to play the conventional Western temperate scale. In any case, nowadays you can programme the keyboard to play microtones, and if you want a banjo-like sound with half-flats you can use the cumbus.....there's always a way for a solution........

spyros mesogeia - 3-13-2012 at 09:25 AM

I tried this....
I think is really limited fro the Algerian repertoire....
My suggestion to you is to make a custom instrument with nylon frets so that way you can move them or put many more....
I hope that you will find the way
All the best
Spyros

francis - 3-13-2012 at 12:48 PM

You can have a look on Pick and Boch webstore. They are located in Lyon, East France. They have several models, with or without quarter tone frets. I think quater tone are fretted on instrument related to the Kabylie area.

http://www.pick-et-boch.com/

Giorgioud - 3-14-2012 at 12:20 PM

Hello Spyros,
by the way, I love your music and your oud playing (I checked your site.....). Funny you should say that, I was thinking just a couple of days ago that it would be really cool if the mandole had nylon frets like the saz.....I was wondering what it would happen if I buy a cittern, deprive it of its frets, and proceed to apply nylon frets on it.....if it doesn't work I'll have an un-sellable cittern on my hands...or a new instrument to rival the glissentar....the glissencittern perhaps.......:))

Giorgioud - 3-14-2012 at 12:27 PM

Hello Francis,
thank you so much for the tip about the Boch & Pick site. It's amazing! I wonder if all those instruments are contained in one shop. It would take at least one week to visit it all!! Plenty of interesting things....I am impressed......

Giorgioud - 3-14-2012 at 12:38 PM

Oh Francis,
I was checking the Boch & Pick site and its vast choice of Algerian mandoles, and I spotted a "Mandole Arab-Andalouse - modele a 10 cordes". The only thing is that it looks exactly like the Blue Moon citterne advertised on the Hobgoblin website. Right down to the pegbox and the shape of the pickguard. Same bridge, same way the neck ends on the rosette (slightly cut off diagonally), same colour, same everything.......I am not saying they are the same thing, I am just saying they look identical......:) Now, I didn't know that a humble citterne could be also pass off as a "Mandole Arab-Andalouse"....which is good news for citterns the world over........

francis - 3-14-2012 at 03:24 PM

Yes Giorgioud, the cheapest models are certainly Blue Moon products, looking pictures gallery shows blue moon soft bags. Better models are built by luthiers ( Patenotte from East france or Others...)

spyros mesogeia - 3-15-2012 at 09:49 AM

Hello Giorgioud,
Thank you for your kind words.
I have never see a cittern and to try it...but what I did once is I took a banjitar,I pulled out the frets,I filled the gaps from the frets and I made some nylon frets on it...I love this instrument,sounds similar to tanbur....but the nylon frets give a more smooth sound.
I can always put on frets and take them off very easy.....
But this ''midle'' fret on the inbetween frets distance did not gaved me any satisfaction.But as I said before,it's my personal opinion.
I am also thinking to make a custom mandole in the future but with some diferent aspects....I am also thinking the nylon frets....I like them more than the metal ones.
all the best
Spyros

Giorgioud - 3-15-2012 at 01:01 PM

Hello Spyros,
thanks for the suggestions, when you said that the banjitar now sounds like a tanbur it kind of twigged something in me, and I am very tempted to get the cittern, take off all the frets and tie nylon frets on it. It would be brilliant to make it sound like a tanbur without having to deal with the cumbersome posture and the phenomenally long neck of the tanbur. I am thinking also to replace the steel strings with mylon strings. How would that react with the nylon frets and with the normal steel frets? Any idea?

spyros mesogeia - 3-15-2012 at 01:10 PM

do you use slype?I can show you the instrument too
regards

Giorgioud - 3-15-2012 at 01:27 PM

I'm afraid I don't, Spyros.....maybe could you e-mail me a pic?

spyros mesogeia - 3-15-2012 at 01:39 PM

facebook has also this aplication
with the picture you can not hear the sound.let me know if you use msn messenger or skype
it will be a pleasure to play it for you

Giorgioud - 3-22-2012 at 10:00 AM

Spyros,
sorry for the late reply, I've been to London for a few days. I had msn hotmail, but I haven't used it for at least 6 years (remarkable but true). I'll dust it off, so to speak, and let you know. I didn't know Facebook has that application too, how do you get into that, do you have to download it or something? I seem to have missed it somehow! I'd love to hear that instrument, more so because-wait for it- I've found the mandole! An Arab-Andalus one by Blue Moon, cheap job, but what the hell. Now I am seriously toying with the idea to do to it what you did to your banjitar: take all the frets off and add nylon frets. It has also a bit of a high action, which I don't like, I'll need to lower that by replacing the (floating) bridge and the nut. Of course I won't be doing it myself, I'd incurr in the risk of ruining the instrument, as every time I get enveloped in a liuthery job by myself I end up going crazy because of too much perfectionism.........

spyros mesogeia - 3-22-2012 at 10:09 AM

:applause:yes it's a skype-facebook aplication.congrats for the new instrument

Giorgioud - 3-22-2012 at 10:27 AM

Thanks Spyros, I'll be checking the application then, see if I can download it, I'll talk to you soon then, I mean if Facebook doeasn't work I still have got msn which might ....thank you man, take care

spyros mesogeia - 3-22-2012 at 10:40 AM

:wavey:

Giorgioud - 3-22-2012 at 11:28 AM

Oh, by the way, Spyros, I've been listening to your songs on the myspace page you've got set up, and I must say they are right my cup of tea. I can see you are coming from the Greek tradition of oud playing, which is exactly the avenue I am exploring at the moment. You've got a great outfit right there.....I played bouzouki for 25 years and I love love love Greek culture and music....Rebetiko looms big in my musical education. I studied Ancient Greek at school and Modern Greek (a bit, anyway) on my own. Actually, I am trying to incorporate bouzouki licks into my oud playing.....and you've got great ouds too...the floating bridge ornate one, is it Iraqi by any chance?

spyros mesogeia - 3-22-2012 at 11:53 AM

thank ypu my friend.honored.
the iraqui is made by Dimitris Rapakousios.it's one of my favorites.....
Basicaly I follow the advice that Haig Yazidjian gaved...I am trying to have my own sound as much as I can.

Giorgioud - 3-26-2012 at 09:57 AM

Hello Spyros,
I seem to have sorted the Skype problem....it doesn't belong to me, it's my girlfriend's (just like the computer, I really own very little in the UK...my instruments, a few cds and a few clothes. :))..)but of course I can use it. All I need now is to buy a microphone, which I will do tomorrow, then we can have a cyber-appointment, so to speak, and you can show me your modified banjitar. You are based in Washington DC, aren't you? How many hours difference to the UK? 5 hours behind? So, let's say, if here's 19.00 at the time of writing, there it's 14.00? Correct?

spyros mesogeia - 3-26-2012 at 10:08 AM

yes my friemd.it will be a pleasure.now is 14:00

spyros mesogeia - 3-26-2012 at 10:09 AM

I will be here

Giorgioud - 3-26-2012 at 10:13 AM

Ok then, let me buy the microphone tomorrow and check if it works, then let's arrange it by let's say 15.30 there in Washington (20.30 here), would that be ok for you? I have to go now, but tomorrow I am going to visit Mike's Oud site first to see if you're around and to exchange Skype addresses so we can call each other.....is it ok?

spyros mesogeia - 3-26-2012 at 10:36 AM

ok my friend

Giorgioud - 3-27-2012 at 11:25 AM

Hello Spyros, are you around by any chance? It's 20.30 almost here in the UK, 15.30 over there

spyros mesogeia - 3-27-2012 at 11:42 AM

Giorgioud - 3-27-2012 at 11:53 AM

my friend I am having some problems calling you. Could you please call me on please?

Giorgioud - 3-27-2012 at 01:19 PM

Thank you Spyros for the time and effort, it really made my evening, it was great......so Efkharisto elefterio

spyros mesogeia - 3-27-2012 at 01:21 PM

:)WELCOME BROTHER