Mike's Oud Forums

Stiff vs soft rishas -- playing precision

naddad - 5-23-2012 at 10:59 PM

Hello,

Guitar virtuosos (e.g. Al Dimeola) use very hard picks because they're better for precision and speed when alternate picking. As a guitarist I also noticed that hard picks allow me to play faster and with more precision.

When I think about why the reason is probably because the pick does not flex after an upstroke so it's ready to immediately engage the string on a downstroke.

Does anyone know what top oud players recommend? What does modern academia teach?

Brian Prunka - 5-24-2012 at 05:09 AM

Oud technique is very different from quitar technique. In my experience, a fairly flexible risha is required for oud, what a quitarist would consider "medium" thickness.

Ararat66 - 5-24-2012 at 06:38 AM

Hi Naddad

it is also to do with how much of the risha is protruding from the fingertips. In a recent workshop with Nizar Rohana he reiterated his own preference for a relatively thin medium risha with small protrusion say 8 mm or so but also with the tip of the index finger brought forward to meet the thumb tip so as to not hit the strings.

Leon

Brian Prunka - 5-24-2012 at 06:56 AM

8mm is a small protrusion?!
I think it is a good amount, but to someone coming from guitar, that is not a small protrusion. Most guitar players use a protrusion of about 3-4mm.

With oud, you want the risha to flex. It's part of the reason a long risha is used, it naturally has more flexibility.

mavrothis - 5-24-2012 at 07:16 AM

Hi,

The picks I use most often are very stiff. They are plastic used for heavy-duty cable ties which I buy at electrical supply stores. Thickness is usually about 1.0 mm. I keep the thickness as is and just shape the edges on each end.

Picking at an angle through the strings (~ 30-45 degrees) combined with the stiffness gives a very smooth and quick response.

The material itself actually gives a darker tone, so I like this combination of increased control, increased volume and darker tone (compared to most 'medium' plastic picks).

Thanks,

Mavrothi

John Erlich - 5-24-2012 at 08:59 AM

Hi,

I use a different risha/misrap for every oud I own. I am using 2 different sanded nylon cable tie mizraps on my Najarian oud and Turkish Eken ud. I use a much thinner, but wider, harder and "springier" Egyptian-made risha on my Shehata. I use an even thinner, even "springier" Egyptian-made risha for my Iraqi oud.

To me, it really depends on the sound and string action of the specific instrument, the style of music and sound you seek, and the player's grip and picking technique. My recommendation is to experiment with different materials, thicknesses, widths, factory-made vs. home-made, sanding vs. cutting, etc. until you find what you like.

Just my $0.02

Peace out,
"Udi" John

fernandraynaud - 5-24-2012 at 11:47 AM

My problem is with tremolo. I prefer a thin horn risha which is pretty stiff. But I cannot get a good tremolo with a stiff risha, it "catches" unless I hold the oud inclined almost 45 degrees. If the oud face is vertical I have to place my right hand uncomfortably high for the risha to hit the strings at enough angle not to snag during tremolo. Of course a soft risha solves it, but can anyone help?

Jody Stecher - 5-24-2012 at 12:12 PM

Here's what helped me get better tremolo with a thick risha. First of all the part of the risha that contacts the strings is parallel to nothing and perpendicular to nothing. Second the wrist is loose and the grip is loose. Each of those are about 15 % of the solution. The big medicine is changing what I think about what I'm doing. Instead of thinking "tremolo" I play numbers. First 2. That's down up. Then 3. That's down up down. Then 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and then any number. I do this rapidly or as rapid as I can but still make completely clean clear sounds. This helped me a lot. For "cable tie" rishi or thin horn or plastic flat ones none of this is necessary; the tremolo pretty much "plays itself".

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  
My problem is with tremolo. I prefer a thin horn risha which is pretty stiff. But I cannot get a good tremolo with a stiff risha, it "catches" unless I hold the oud inclined almost 45 degrees. If the oud face is vertical I have to place my right hand uncomfortably high for the risha to hit the strings at enough angle not to snag during tremolo. Of course a soft risha solves it, but can anyone help?

Ararat66 - 5-24-2012 at 12:54 PM

Following my last post I actually feel most comfortable with a widish risha - I use the Gallis which are moderately heavy compared with some and I just measured how I hold it after playing for 5 minutes and it is only 5 or 6 mm from the edge of my thumb but protrudes at an angle almost like the edge of a long thumbnail.

I suspect Nizar is more like 5 or 6 mm too if I think about it - I know that too long and the effect is very different. I sometimes use a very smooth soft Turkish Mizrap which gives a very fat and 'buzzy' sound but is relatively slow ... but very nice to use.

Leon

Brian Prunka - 5-24-2012 at 01:48 PM

Fernand, one trick that one of my teachers showed me is to "start" the tremolo without touching the strings, and gradually lower it into the strings, seeing if you can do it smoothly (kind of like a crescendo or volume swell).

One of the issues with tremolo is often the first down or up movement being uneven (because you're used to playing a single note), and this helps solve that.

Tremolo is mysterious . . . I remember first trying to learn it and asking a lot of questions, which led to very little satisfactory information. People would say "it's hard to explain" or "you just have to keep doing it" or other non-answers.
But I just kept practicing, and somehow after 11 years I'm happy with it! Watching excellent players from close up was very helpful.


Sofietje - 5-25-2012 at 11:08 AM

I'm with John on this one... try some different kinds and see what feels best to you... I know people who quickly make one from the plastic handle of a box of washing powder or something similar... I think in most cases what you will think to be a good risha will depend more on your technique than on the material of the risha.

About the tremolo... if the risha is quite thick, try making the distance between the strings and your fingers a bit longer? (make the playing part of the risha longer.. sorry, hard to explain). What helped me to learn was start real slow and pay attention that up and down the sound is equal and then gradually increase speed.

keving - 5-26-2012 at 10:03 AM

for tremolo for some reason learning it earlier on guitar for me seemed to make it easy to transfer to oud, even though the technique is clearly different.

I found practicing triplets in various picking directions extremely helpful for producing more even sounding tremolo. I would like to have an opportunity to see a master demonstrate their technique up close, that would be cool.

fernandraynaud - 5-26-2012 at 09:08 PM

Thanks for all the tips. The "start above the strings" trick is good. With a soft or a thick hard risha it's OK, but with a thin horn risha, that plucks marvelously, the problem is it "hooks" or "catches" if the risha is close to parallel. It's uncomfortable to raise the arm on the oud body to develop enough angle, which is why it's better for me with the oud face NOT vertical. I prefer playing with the face inclined, but I'm forcing myself to hold it vertical, hence new problems. I'll figure it out, I guess.

But we probably all agree a long risha is important to give the best wrist action, it's almost like a counterweight. I made a beautiful multi-layered risha, horn and delrin, but I only had a small piece of horn blank left. It's only about 4 inches long, and it's too short. It's got to protrude out the other side of the grip to feel good.