Jono Oud N.Z - 7-7-2012 at 04:46 PM
Hi.
Although this is an oud site, I am curious about this?
Does anyone know if Arabic and Turkish neys are tuned differently?.
I notice on my Turkish ney, that I have to blow the Segah and Awj notes down somewhat, to get the Arabic intonations.
ameer - 7-7-2012 at 05:22 PM
Turkish microtonal intonation differs from Arabic intonation. I'm not sure of the exact specifics but I do know there is a difference.
Jono Oud N.Z - 7-7-2012 at 10:39 PM
Hi.
Thanks
I realise that the tunings are different; the neutral tones are lower in Arabic and Persian music, and are significantly higher in Turkish music
today.
(Turkish tuning was the same as Persian / Arabic until the mid 1700's).
But...
I was wondering if the holes are slightly different on Arabic and Turkish ney's.
There is certainly a degree of intonational difference that can be achieved anyway...
But, maybe they are?
It seems very hard to find any information on this..
I am learning Arabic style ney, but have a dukah ney from Istanbul.
luan - 7-7-2012 at 11:06 PM
You can have a ney for each key, and quarter tones are controlled with the fingers.
Khalid_Salé - 7-8-2012 at 03:04 AM
Yes, the Turkish is tuned a little higher. The Segah note on a (Turkish) Sipurde ney is higher than on the (Arabic) Dukah ney. Have you seen the
neyzen.com learning pdfs? They give the sound for every note on every ney, and if I play along with my Arab Dukah ney, it is in perfect tune with
their Sipurde for every note but the Segah, which sounds a little flat on the Arab ney. I just googled and found this article, which says a little bit
about it:
http://www.erratum.org/datas/MUSICOLOGY/%23Arab%20Music/Arab%20Musi...
"Another aspect of the issue of variable half-flats is the claim
by some that half-flats vary, not from one maqam to another, but
from region to region. One Cairo musician recognized four regional
tunings for the note Sikah (i.e., E half-flat). "The lowest Sikah is here
in Egypt. You go to Lebanon and Palestine, the Sikah is a little higher.
In 'Iraq, it is still higher, and in Istanbul, it is E natural." However,
this musician asserted, there is only one position for this note within
each of these four areas. The idea of regional variation was also
expressed at the 1932 Congress within the Commission on the Musical
Scale. Examples of Egyptian scales and musical phrases were played
for the assembled musicians "who declared that it was indeed the
actual Egyptian music. The same experiment was made for Turkish
and Syrian music. The Egyptian musicians said that it was not their
music, and in particular, found the Sikah to be too high" (Recueil
1934:595). Elsewhere in the same publication it is stated that the notes
Sikah and Awj (B half-flat) of Turkish, Syrian, and Iraqi scales are "a
little higher" than those of the Egyptian scale (:596)."
Jono Oud N.Z - 7-8-2012 at 10:42 PM
Hi.
Thanks very much
I have a Sipurde ney and a Yildiz ney.
It sounds like I need a professional Dukah ney also.
I have been playing with a Persian setar player.
He tunes the Segah (etc), lower than Turkish and Syrian music, but close to Egyptian; quite low.
My Turkish neys are not really able to play Segah this low.
The Turkish neys can work pretty well for Syrian as well as Turkish music though.
Excellent article my Dr Marcus too.
Does anyone know a good place to buy a professional Dukah ney?
Khalid_Salé - 7-9-2012 at 02:23 AM
There's an Egyptian nay maker named Saber Kawla with dozens of videos on youtube, you might want to email him. I read somewhere that he makes very
good nays for export:
https://www.youtube.com/user/saberaly144?feature=watch
The Yildiz ney is equivalent to the Arabic Rast nay (all holes closed = B flat), which seems to be as low as the Arabs go. The Turks love those deep
sounds. For the Turkish stuff you probably need a Kiz ney and maybe a Mansur ney too, not that I want to encourage too much spending 
Ney's can play in tune?
jefflopezstuit - 7-9-2012 at 12:31 PM
I shared this topic with a couple Turkish ney playing friends, and they jokingly asked how you were able to determine that the ney was actually in
tune! ;-)
Jono Oud N.Z - 7-9-2012 at 12:39 PM
Hi
Thanks!!
I will email him
Very helpful!
LOL
I test my ney with a tuner, you can see the tunings of the neutral notes clearly.
All the other (non neutral) notes are in tune on my neys.
Khalid_Salé - 9-9-2012 at 01:40 PM
Although this thread's old, I just thought I'd link to this post from Ustadh Mohammed Antar on Zeryab forum, where he says a little bit about this
issue of the Segah note. He notes that Neyzen Suleyman Erguner Dede would play the segah note with a slightly lower intonation, in between the high
Turkish and the low Arabic.
http://www.zeryab.org/zeryab/showthread.php?p=144743#post144743
For those who know Arabic, on the next page of the thread he says a little bit more about it, and also gives a clip of a contemporary neyzen, Ekrem
Vural, who also uses this intonation.
Jono Oud N.Z - 9-9-2012 at 03:36 PM
Hi
Very helpful and interesting.
Thanks!