Mike's Oud Forums

Banjo?

Giorgioud - 7-8-2012 at 06:42 AM

Dear oudists,
this topic has nothing to do with the oud, but it sure has to do with a cordophone. Check this old vid by the Algerian Chaabi artist Omar Mekraza. http://youtu.be/tWUGYbi0j-I The banjo player(s) have been always a staple in a Chaabi orchestra (right down to today, just check El Gusto Orchestra http://youtu.be/ljWOMHLMzrQ here they are playing a beutiful version of Ya Rayah (the immigrant), the Dahmane Al-Harrachi classic). Thing is, I have never heard any banjo sound like these here do. They sure don't sound like those in American Country music, for example (I know they are strung differently and have a different neck, but still). These have more reverb and resonance and tend to sound more like a qanun. I was wondering if they are different kind of banjos which go under a different name, or banjos in disguise like our old friend the Joombush (Cumbus). Here's a better example, that banjo (or whatever it is) really flies! http://youtu.be/lqTzbnfV9KI

Greg - 7-8-2012 at 07:50 AM

Hi Giorgioud,

I was asked to double on oud and banjo last year when guesting with a group that plays 'hybrid' music based on Turkish, Arabic and Ladino (Judeo-Spanish) music.
I dug out the old tenor banjo, tuned it to the top four courses of a Turkish oud and was surprised at how appropriate the sound was, together with darbuka, kemenche and ney.
I have attached a photo from the concert.

Regards,

Greg

banjo2.jpg - 101kB

Jason - 7-8-2012 at 08:17 AM

Pretty neat seeing the violins played like a gamba and the bassist playing left-handed in that video.

Giorgioud - 7-8-2012 at 10:44 AM

Hello Greg,
your answer made me think: "A-ha! That's how they do it!". But of course. If a standard tenor (I hope is the one you are talking about) is tuned from top (thinnest) to bottom A, D, G, C, F, Eb, tuning it like a Turkish oud would raise it of a third, a fourth, a fifth....and...er....a seventh?....well, never mind...(not sure about that fourth string, it might snap, mightn't it?), thus giving it that twangy, reverbery and metallic sound....thanks mate!!!


Jason,
yeah, did you see the violins? In the Algerian tradition they play violin that way. I am told by my Algerian friends that it is very effective and more comfortable than the Western way. I am inclined to agree. Everyone plays it like that. From the oldies to the new ones. I attach two videos from different eras, two singers/arab-andalus (or algerian, or chaabi) mandole players (another instrument that rivals the oud in popularity over there).
Guerouabi El-Hachemi http://youtu.be/y5W-8kMqcCI Mohammed El-Anka http://youtu.be/3Q8-7zGBTS8

Jody Stecher - 7-8-2012 at 02:06 PM

A tenor banjo is a short necked 4 string instrument. It is usually tuned in fifths. C-G- d -a (low to high). These long necked instruments in the video clips are not tenor banjos, these appear to be a variation of zither banjo, a top-tension 19th century invention designed to have strings of gut, silk, steel and copper, each with a different tone quality. These were 5 string banjos with a short high drone as a fifth string but they used 6 tuning pegs because guitar tuners, 3 to a plate, were used. I've also seen Korean factory banjos used in North African music (s). The ones in the videos look to me to have 6 courses like a guitar and tuned entirely in fourths. My guess would be E A D G C F but as no open strings are being played here it's hard to tell.

Giorgioud - 7-11-2012 at 01:59 PM

Thanks Jody,
you are right, those banjos are 6-string ones, and as you quite rightly point out, they might be tuned in fourths. I wish I was able to tell, because the handwork is so fast they make it very difficult to assest.
Do Korean banjos of the 6-string variety usually have that metallic sound? I quite like it! And they might be cheap too, mightn't they?
Once (I was about 17-18, a long time ago) I borrowed a banjo from a friend who didn't play it. It had 6 strings so I tuned it like a guitar. I thought all the banjos had 6 strings. Imagine my surprise when, years later, I discovered there were 4 and 5 string banjos!!!

Jody Stecher - 7-11-2012 at 02:08 PM

Fourths all the way is the usual Algerian tuning for guitar so I guessed banjo might be the same. The only Korean banjos I have seen are 5 string and, yes they are inexpensive. The sound depends on strings, type of plectrum and especially on the sound in the mind of the player.
Quote: Originally posted by Giorgioud  
Thanks Jody,
you are right, those banjos are 6-string ones, and as you quite rightly point out, they might be tuned in fourths. I wish I was able to tell, because the handwork is so fast they make it very difficult to assest.
Do Korean banjos of the 6-string variety usually have that metallic sound? I quite like it! And they might be cheap too, mightn't they?
Once (I was about 17-18, a long time ago) I borrowed a banjo from a friend who didn't play it. It had 6 strings so I tuned it like a guitar. I thought all the banjos had 6 strings. Imagine my surprise when, years later, I discovered there were 4 and 5 string banjos!!!

Giorgioud - 7-11-2012 at 02:21 PM

Absoluto correcto Jody! I suppose they want to make it sound like thew qanun they wish they had in the band (or they could play). I wonder, though, if the cheapness of the materials contributes to the metallic twang, which, you must admit, it's very particular, and you don't find even on 6-string banjos played in other genres......
Also, it is difficult to assest how they are tuned because the fingers on the neck are stretched way beyond usual, covering 4 or 5 frets with ease, and they are placed almost obliquely to the neck. And no use of the pinky finger for those stretches on third majors.......

Oh, by the way, when you talk about Algerian guitar, you don't mean these, do you?
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1343067569873 It's easy to mistake them as guitars because of their shape, but they're actually mandoles just like these http://youtu.be/M3oH7E3iVkY but, unlike the last example which is the most common specimen of mandole in Algeria and has 4 or 5 courses, the previous one has 6 and, as you rightly pointed out, is tuned in fourths all the way