Mike's Oud Forums

Old Greek "Rebetis" Oud player Markos Melkon

spyrosc - 11-25-2004 at 08:51 AM

I thought I might put up a piece by the old Greek Armenian Oudi from Asia Minor (Anatolia) Markos Melkon, as a sample of 1930's "Rebetika" music.

It's simply called "Tsifte-Telli" which of course is what in the USA passes for belly-dancing music (arghhh!). These guys lived in what is now Turkey and the Turkish influence is obvious. There was a wonderful mixture of Greek, Armenian and Turkish tradition in all their music.

Tell me what you think
Spyros C.

Fantastic

LeeVaris - 11-25-2004 at 01:35 PM

The recording quality is exceptional on this! Is this really from 1930? What is the rest of the album like? Can I purchase this anywhere?

I'm particularly interested in "Rebetika" music as my family heritage is greek. I always imagined that greek oud music was primarily Ottoman (Turkish) in character – this cut sounds almost arabic! Is there an identifiable "Rebetika" oud style? I've always thought "Rebetika" implied Bouzouki, Baglama or Tsoura!

Markos Melkon et al

spyrosc - 11-25-2004 at 04:07 PM

Thanks Lee, yes this is from (I think) 1935-37. I have the album (and a boatload of others too).

I'll try to find the source for you, but I'm sure if you do a Web search you'll get many hits on "Rebetika" and where to get records.

The history of Rebetiko is mixed with the story of the "population exchange" that happened after 1922 between Greece and Turkey, when hundreds of thousands of Greeks who had lived in Asia Minor since Ancient times, became refugees in Greece, and brought with them their music and instruments (including the oud).

You can get a lot of information on the Web. I'm attaching a couple of links (from the many many that exist):

http://www.sophiabilides.com/refugees.htm

http://www.rebetiko.org/


Markos Melkon eventually immigrated to the USA where he passed away in the 1970's.

Spyros C.

Multi Kulti - 11-25-2004 at 06:44 PM

Actually there are not so many greek oud players in this period.I can call 2 names Agapios Toboulis (the oud player of Roza Eskenazi) and Manisalis (he plays a little bit in the "Rebetiko" movie).There was Grigorios Asikis too but he was only known for his voice.These players brought a new style with Asia Minor-flavour..It is called Smyrneiko music (from Smyrna).
Rebetiko is actually the urban underground music of this period in greece (1930-1950) with Bouzouki,baglama and quitar as main instruments.

I attach another one Smyrneiko Song with Roza Eskenazi and Agapio Tobuli on oud.You can find this same song in turkish too (as Arap kizi)

Nikos

Multi Kulti - 11-25-2004 at 06:45 PM

One more time

Multi Kulti - 11-25-2004 at 06:47 PM

Sh*t

Last time...

great music

revaldo29 - 11-25-2004 at 07:13 PM

Man, this is some great music. I love the music spyrosc posted. This oud doesn't sound turkish, it sounds arabic. Spyrosc, is there anywhere I can download some more of these type of music. I'm guessing it's classical Greek. The oum kalthoum and sayed darwish of greek music. It sounds really nice. If you know of any links to sites where I can download mp3s like this, that would be great. Thanx

Jonathan - 11-25-2004 at 07:22 PM

The Marko track can be found on a CD released by Traditional Crossroads called simply Marko Melkon. You can find it here:
http://www.traditionalcrossroads.com
the rest of the cd is also superb. Well worth seeking out. One of my favorite cds. This cd is the best place to start for Marko, who was a great ud player.
If you get hooked, pick up Armenians on Eighth Avenue, a cd also released by traditional crossroads, which also has some Marko tracks. The only other readily available track that I know of is on Masters of Turkish Music Volume 2 (Chatabaran Taksim).
There is also a long out-of-print lp, "Hi-Fi Adventure in Asia Minor", which is not up to his standards. Other than that, there are some pretty rare 78s out there that are superb.
So this is Rebetika? I always just called it "kef" music--good time, party music. Marko made great good time music, but I think he also was a heck of a player, and any taksim you can find with his name on it is worth seeking out.

Nondas - 7-23-2012 at 10:19 PM

Well, Melkon did play an Arabic oud, so that is probably it.

Giorgioud - 7-24-2012 at 12:16 AM

Wow, an oudist of the Greek-Turco-Armenian tradition using the Egyptian/Syrian tuning! The results are startling. This player is excellent, I confess I didn't know him, I wanna study him in depht as he's so inspirational. I seem to gather there's not a proper compilation CD of his work (I mean exclusively his playing).....or is there?

conroystoptime - 7-24-2012 at 04:30 AM

LeeVaris remarked on the amazing sound quality of this track. Traditional Crossroads is a wonderful label founded by former RCA Classical executive Harold Hagopian. A big motivation behind starting the venture was the innovation of new digital mastering technology in which the original metal acetate is re-mastered.

It's incredible, isn't it? As if you're sitting in the same room with these musicians from 80 years ago.

I would highly recommend the album, Istanbul 1925, for anyone who doesn't know it yet. There are four Udi Hrant tracks that have the same clarity and hi-fi-ness of the Melkon.

Great stuff. Thank you for sharing.

adamgood - 7-24-2012 at 09:28 AM

Here's the page at the Traditional Crossroads site for their CD compilation of Udi Marko Melkon

http://www.traditionalcrossroads.com/shop/article_CD%25204281/Marko...

reminore - 7-24-2012 at 02:47 PM

you might want to be careful mixing musics and styles...marko melkon really didn't play much from the 'rembetika'...but rather drew strongly from the istanbul meyhane (tavern that served alcohol) and gazino culture - which was transported to the nightclubs along 8th ave. in nyc from the 1930's up until the late 80's when the last clubs closed. my friend harold hagopian (who brought out the m.melkon cd on his label traditional crossroads) was telling me recently that he was house udist for a couple of years at one of the then surviving clubs (egyptian gardens?).

francis - 7-24-2012 at 04:58 PM

You can find a lot of tunes from Rosa Eskenasy and the Istanbul greek community in the two cd from Loxandra : Almost like in the past and Kafe aman. Two amazing and warm cds!!!
They plays the tunes in the old way and add personal interpretations....
Kyriakos Tapakis plays the oud in the band and to my opinion he is a great player.
Some vids can be found on youtube and Loukas Metaxas is the man you can call for cd's. I can also ask him if necessary...

Francis

Jody Stecher - 7-24-2012 at 05:49 PM

Roza apparently did live and work for a time in Istanbul and some of her accompanists were born there (and others in Smryna, in Salonika , and in Macedonia) but I'm fairly certain she was from Salonika herself.


Quote: Originally posted by francis  
You can find a lot of tunes from Rosa Eskenasy and the Istanbul greek community in the two cd from Loxandra : Almost like in the past and Kafe aman. Two amazing and warm cds!!!
They plays the tunes in the old way and add personal interpretations....
Kyriakos Tapakis plays the oud in the band and to my opinion he is a great player.
Some vids can be found on youtube and Loukas Metaxas is the man you can call for cd's. I can also ask him if necessary...

Francis

reminore - 7-25-2012 at 05:39 AM

actually, while roza was born in istanbul in the late 19th c., she was raised in salonica (then an ottoman city), and lived later as an adult in athens. she only returned to istanbul in 1954, where she made 40 recordings with the turkish clarinet virtuoso sukru tunar on the odeon parlophone label.

an amazing woman - while other singers might have a more virtuosic command of gazel style singing, she infuses her music with a mournful complaint and a longing that embodies the voice of the dispossessed refugees from asia minor who flooded greece after 1922. probably the most fascinating and little known part of her life was the fact that in nazi occupied athens, she even managed to open a club - remember, she was jewish...she had a german lover who was able to protect her which in turn allowed her to help a number greek jews escape...

actually, there are a great number of her recordings on youtube...for those who like this genre, also try listening to rita abatzi...

Jody Stecher - 7-25-2012 at 07:42 AM

Thanks, Re Minore! I stand corrected. :-)

Nondas - 7-25-2012 at 04:33 PM

Melkon and Roza actually played together. I don't know if anyone here is familiar with bouzouki pioneer Ioannis Halikias, but both Melkon, and Roza recorded at his house, there are several pieces with Melkon on oud, and Halikias on bouzouki, they actually played together at the Kismet night club in 1949. Also, Melkon did record quite a bit of Rembetika, quite a lot actually, so I don't think what was said above by reminore is entirely accurate.

reminore - 7-26-2012 at 06:25 AM

it really depends on what one considers 'rembetika'...thank god since we are not academics but musicians each person is free to interpret and organize bits and pieces of historical fact as they see fit.

for me, rembetikais the music that was generated in the hash dens of pireus and athens in the 1920's and 30's by mostly (self taught) musicians playing instruments like the baglama, guitar and bouzouki - all instruments with chromatic 'western' fingerboards...

the arrival of 1.5 million orthodox refugees from asia minor by 1923 however, saw the arrival of many professional musicians used to playing in the cabarets and cafe chantants of smyrna and istanbul and performing before audiences expecting a sophisticated rendering of gazels, sarkis and light ottoman classical music in general...their orchestras were mostly comprised of violin, santour, kanun and of course the ud...microtonal music - this music today is known in greece as 'smyrneika' (smyrna music). more correctly, it is called asia minor music...when these muscians wound up as refugees in greece - for them it was adapt or starve...

a large majority of the songs sung by melkon were old favorites throughout asia minor, (like the song yandim tokat yandim - which sings about the city of tokat in central anatolia)...and continued to be sung and played to refugee crowds, both in greece and in new york city. i don't see him as a product of the margin of society, ie. as a 'rembetis'. from what i've learned of his life, he was a master showman who knew how to pull the purse strings of anyone in the crowd - especially nostalgic folk from asia minor, greeks, turks, armenians all.

if some want to lump the whole phenomenon together and call everything 'rembetika' that originated in that corner of the world at that time rembetika, its their right of course, but i feel that having a fuller understanding of the nuances of these histories can help in the proper 'interpretation' and re-interpretation of these songs today...

Nondas - 7-26-2012 at 09:05 AM

I don't quite lump it all together, but he was very close with some of the rembetis in N.Y and on the home recordings you can tell he is a Mangas by his voice, on the tapes he is playing with Jack Halikias (If you haven't checked him out, you must!), and in the beginning and middle of the song they break out into hashish spawned dialogue! Really some great stuff, I do say that he is a rebetis, though. Many people seem to think it was only bouzouki, baglamas, and guitar, a total lie! There exist pictures and recordings with bouzouki, oud, violin, even kanun, so I personally know that Rembetika is not just bouzouki, baglama, and guitar, even though thanks to Halikias, the bouzouki is the "essential" instrument in Rebetika.

stos - 7-26-2012 at 02:20 PM

I don't think it needs a debat but I play this music a lot and I understand as rebetiko is splitted up it two parts : smyrneika and pireotika.

I think there is some differences in the thematics but not so much, when you consider also songs from istanbul cafés (talk about melodramatic love, exile, prison, everyday poetry etc..)

Ararat66 - 7-26-2012 at 11:40 PM

Pireotica from Piraeus ? is that correct. I like this melting pot which resonates still.

Leon

stos - 7-27-2012 at 01:11 AM

yes pireotica from pireus

francis - 7-29-2012 at 04:29 PM

I would like to know if we can find music sheets of these tunes: Rosa Eskenasy's songs, Marcos Melkon tunes...etc...

hartun - 2-10-2014 at 07:51 PM

opening up this thread again....i think the reason for this confusion is that the availability of marko melkons music on CD is mainly all the Turkish stuff, probably becauase it was released by Harold Hagopian, the anatolian songs sung in Turkish being popular among Armenians while Greeks songs were not because, well obviously although everyone knew Turkish, Armenians did not know Greek and vice versa....

with the exception of Armenians from Smyrna who often did know Greek, Melkon being one of them. Melkon has recorded almost as many songs in Greek as he has in Turkish, they are just harder to find on CD. One that keeps popping up on youtube and elsewhere is his rendition of "To Prosfighaki"....definitely a rebetiko song, it manages to mention exile, hashish, and longing for smyrna all in one song. oh and its a zeibekiko too. Its basically an explanation of rebetiko....sung by an Armenian

by the way in my opinion "smyrneiko" is just the greek term for what armenian-americans call "kef music". rebetiko has a different flavor though, it's harder, talks about drugs etc. none of the old turkish or armenian songs i've heard reference drugs, only alcohol and very rarely tobacco. so i don't consider marko a rebetis but he definitely played rebetiko songs. "the greeks used to swear he was greek" according to the liner notes of his CD. although maybe he smoked a little hashish with jack h., it wouldn't surprise me. marko was a tough character, not from the margins of society but lets just say I doubt he could get elected to parish council.....

as far as I know there is no sheet music to marko melkon songs.

reminore - 2-11-2014 at 06:01 AM

hey hartun - so the cd that you want is this:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&f...

a greek cd with half with the songs of a greek rembetis who played in the first and greatest rebetika ensemble in the 30's, anestis delias.

the second grouping of songs are nearly all m. melkon in greek...i'm surprised to find it available on amazon - i bought it in salonica in the early 90's...

hartun - 2-11-2014 at 06:38 AM

hey reminore, thanks for the tip! a while back there was an entire vinyl LP of marko melkon's greek 78s, on ebay but they were asking a lot for it. this is great thanks. i actually have some melkon stuff on 78 myself in greek, "memetis" and i might have another one. that memetis is a great recording. and the flipside is something called kenurio zeybekiko do you know what kenurio means? i'm guessing a place?

John Erlich - 2-11-2014 at 01:41 PM

I own a copy of this recording, too. I bought it in Athens in 2002, if memory serves. I will go home and listen to it again. I don't listen to it very often. I have a vague memory of cloyingly poor sound quality.

reminore - 2-12-2014 at 05:01 PM


kainourio zebekiko means simply, 'new zebekiko'...

John Erlich - 2-13-2014 at 11:08 AM

Hi Hartun,

I've been listening to the CD today. I don't hear a lot of flashy solo oud work here. If you are going to pay 28 bucks on Amazon or 18 quid on Amazon UK to buy the Anestis Delias/Markos Melkon CD, I would only do it if you are a serious rembetiko freak.

For example, here is the recording of "Οğlan Οğlan" from the Anestis Delias/Markos Melkon recording (track 17): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbmOpT8HuTA

Opa,
"Udi" John

hartun - 2-14-2014 at 06:05 AM

well, i'm a serious marko melkon freak so yeah....but 28 is an awful lot for a CD. thanks for the tip!

dario - 3-28-2014 at 04:04 AM

Hi all, I made an account so I could tell you that one Marko Melkon piece has indeed been transcribed (not by me I hasten to add!) here: http://subdiversity.com/2011/12/28/to-prosfygaki/
It's a song in Greek that could be considered rebetiko, so exhibiting a different side of Melkon from the Traditional Crossroads CDs which, as has been noted, focus on his Turkish and Armenian style playing. Incidentally it's not uncommon to hear this particular song being played by rebetiko bands, it's become somewhat popular recently.