adamgood - 9-23-2013 at 05:25 PM
Hey All,
On the CD compilation "To What Strange Place" there's a great track for a nice Laz Bar dance, the title is "High Aghchg, Tchar Aghchg" which
apparently translates to Armenian Girl, Naughty Girl....
Does anyone have the lyrics to this tune? Naughty or otherwise?
Thanks ahead!!!
Adam
Arto - 9-30-2013 at 09:13 AM
For a brief moment, I thought "High Aghchg" was some uncommon tuning... 
- I wonder how on Earth is the word pronounced?
Sorry Adam, no idea about the lyrics... 
hartun - 10-1-2013 at 02:47 PM
Adam,
I've been meaning to transcribe these for myself for a while and now you gave me a reason to do it!
There are lyrics printed in the Pharos Records Songbook ("Paros Yerkaran") of 1928 but it's not exactly what Douzjian sings in the recording. However
without the help of those printed lyrics I could never have figured this out. The biggest difference is the first sentence "Urishin yarn inch anem?"
(What would I do with someone else's sweetheart [yar]) which in the printed lyrics is "Urishin parkn inch anem" (What would I do with someone else's
glory) (??). The printed makes no sense to me unless it's an Armenian idiom I don't know. Although I'm taking a class on the New Testament and there
is a verse where it says "woman is the glory of man"....
If you find it hard to sing don't feel bad. Armenian has a lot of consonants and in this song they're just all smashed up next to each other.
For the transcription I used Turkish spelling for the vowels and phonetic English spelling for the consonants. I find that this is the best for
rendering Armenian, especially considering Western Armenian uses a ton of Ottoman Turkish loan words. (Incidentally Turkish uses quite a few words
originating in Armenian although they are usually in a "Turkified" form rather than loan words proper.) Another note, the apostrophes are a
grammatical rule in Armenian spelling and do not affect the pronunciation so you can ignore them. I.e. pronounce g'uzem as guzem.
Hai Aghchig - Char Aghchig
(not Aghchg) The translation is correct, although its not "naughty" in a dirty sense. "char" means bad (in a moral sense not a general sense). The
translation "naughty" probably comes from the fact that "char" is often used in reference to misbehaving children. However here the singer is
frustrated with the girl because she refuses his advances/leads him on so he's calling her a "char" girl for that reason. The sense is why won’t you
be agreeable and go out with me? To
be more specific, in the song he says "you promised me a kiss, why won't you give me one, Armenian girl?". Incidentally in the recorded version of the
song he doesn't use the word "char" at all as far as I could tell, although it is in the printed lyrics.
Urishin yarn inch anem?***
Urishin yarn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Mal u mulkı inch ınem?
Mal u mulkı inch ınem?
Garmir solerov akhchig
Gananch solerov*** akhchig
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar
İnchu ches dar hay akhchig?
**Urishin yarn inch anem: the "n" on the end of yar means "the". when followed by a words beginning with a vowel, it melds into the second word, i.e.
the pronunciation is "urishin yar-ninch anem" same for "vosgi koharn inch anem" By the way although the word for girl is spelled as "aghchig" many
people including douzjian pronounce the "gh" as a "kh". My Armenian teacher actually taught us this is what everyone does, but that's not quite the
case. I would leave at as "gh" in my own notes but I changed it for your benefit.
***not sure about this word but it makes sense to sing it that way. it could be "gananch tsorerov" which would make no sense but might be believable
as an ad lib as it's a phrase from another song. Sometimes these guys just mess up their own lyrics....there was one 78 where the guy says "your eyes
are red"...i'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about smoking dope, he just substituted the word eyes for cheeks or said the wrong color (not too hard
since in armenian gananch=green gabouyd=blue and garmir=red)
Bülbül em vart mı g'uzem
Bülbül em vart mı g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Gamar unkerov akhchig
Garmir tısherov akhchig
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar
İnchu ches dar jan akhchig?
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Kınatsir, hok mi aner
Kınatsir, hok mi aner
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Gamar unkerov akhchig
Garmir tusherov akhchig
Yes kez hampuyr khosdatsa
İnchu ch’arnes jan akhchig?
Enjoy!
Harry Kezelian
http://www.keftimeusa.blogspot.com
hartun - 10-1-2013 at 02:54 PM
lyrics in the Paros Yerkaran 1928
Urishin parkn inch anem?
Urishin parkn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Mal u mülkı inch anem?
Mal u mülkı inch anem?
Garmir tusherov aghchig
Gamar unkerov aghchig
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar
İnchu ches dar char aghchig?
Bılbul em vart mı g'uzem
Bılbul em vart mı g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Gamar unkerov aghchig, etc.
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Kınatsir, hok mi ıner
Kınatsir, hok mi ıner
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Gamar unkerov aghchig, etc.
hartun - 10-1-2013 at 02:56 PM
lyrics in the M. Douzjian recording (again)
Urishin yarn inch anem?
Urishin yarn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Vosgi koharn inch anem?
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Togh im siradzıs intz dan
Mal u mulkı inch ınem?
Mal u mulkı inch ınem?
Garmir solerov akhchig
Gananch solerov akhchig
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar
İnchu ches dar hay akhchig?
Bülbül em vart mı g'uzem
Bülbül em vart mı g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Teyev varter chen patsvadz
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem
Gamar unkerov akhchig
Garmir tısherov akhchig
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar
İnchu ches dar jan akhchig?
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Arkhalukhıs garer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Vosgi gojag sharer yem
Kınatsir, hok mi aner
Kınatsir, hok mi aner
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Yes siradzıs arer yem
Gamar unkerov akhchig
Garmir tusherov akhchig
Yes kez hampuyr khosdatsa
İnchu ch’arnes jan akhchig?
hartun - 10-1-2013 at 03:49 PM
Translation of the recording
Urishin yarn inch anem? - What would I do with someone else's sweetheart [yar]?
Vosgi koharn inch anem? - What would I do with gold and jewels?
Togh im siradzıs intz dan - Let them give my beloved to me (i.e. in marriage)
Mal u mulkı inch ınem? - What would I do with goods and property?
Garmir solerov akhchig - Girl with red shoes
Gananch solerov akhchig - Girl with green shoes (?)
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar - You promised me a kiss
İnchu ches dar hay akhchig? - Why aren't you giving it to me, Armenian girl?
(in the printed version, "naughty" or "bad" girl [char aghchig] instead of armenian girl)
Bülbül em vart mı g'uzem - I am a nightingale, I want a rose
İm siradz yarıs g'uzem - I want my beloved sweetheart [yar]
Teyev varter chen patsvadz - Although roses have not bloomed [or opened]
Yes kirgıt hankchil g'uzem - I want to rest in your embrace [literally, arms or bosom]
Gamar unkerov akhchig - Girl with arched eyebrows
Garmir tısherov akhchig - Girl with red cheeks
Tu intz hampuyr khosdatsar - You promised me a kiss
İnchu ches dar jan akhchig? - Why won't you give it to me, my dear girl [dear=jan]
Arkhalukhıs garer yem - I have sewed my arkhaluk***
Vosgi gojag sharer yem - I have lined up gold buttons
Kınatsir, hok mi aner - Sleep, don't worry
Yes siradzıs arer yem - I have married my sweetheart
Gamar unkerov akhchig - Girl with arched eyebrows
Garmir tusherov akhchig - Girl with red cheeks
Yes kez hampuyr khosdatsa - I promised you a kiss
İnchu ch’arnes jan akhchig? - Why won't you take it, my dear girl?
***Arkhaluk: "Over the shirt Armenians put on cotton or silk arkhaluk – outerwear with low collar fastened waist down with hooks or small buttons."
another translation: "a short caftan". another definition from Azerbaijan: Arkhaluk was a close-fitting wear. Its hem was decorated with frills,
sleeves were straight gradually narrowing in elbow. Arkhaluk could have one or two pockets; they were collar-buttoned. For making arkhaluk cashmere,
satin and sateen were used. With arkhaluk young men wore a belt or a girdle and adults or elderly men used a sash.
hartun - 10-1-2013 at 03:56 PM
btw, you will note that the song like most armenian and many (most?) turkish and azeri folk songs is written in the "mani" poetic format. This is also
called "khaghig" in Armenian. This means 4 lines to each stanza and 7 syllables to each line with the rhyme scheme AABA. Often the first line or first
two lines seem to have nothing to do with the rest of the quatrain.
adamgood - 10-1-2013 at 09:19 PM
Harry!!!!!!!!!!
Holy smokes you are amazing! What a surprise, I'm so pleased you felt inspired to take this on. How can I thank you???
Within a week I'll mark up a nice chart of this with your lyric transcription.
BTW do you know if this song is sung more typically in 2/7 rather than 7/8? On a Hagopian CD I heard the melody in 2/4. Also wondering since some of
the lyrics sound to fall a little funny rhythmically. Otherwise I think it's wonderful in 7.
So happy. You made my day.
Adam
hartun - 10-2-2013 at 09:30 AM
Adam,
You're welcome. I'm just glad someone can use the esoteric information in my head, haha.
When played live a Laz Bar always starts out in 7/8 and then usually goes into 2/4 relatively toward the end of the song. Usually the 2/4 part of the
melody is slightly different. Sometimes a band will go back into 7/8 after playing in 2/4 for a while.
The Richard Hagopian Kef Time recording is in 7/8 and at the end goes into 2/4. First they change the melody but then they end up back at the same
melody only in 2/4.
I think the lyrics being funny is that they aren't exactly perfect lyrics for the song. They could be manis (quatrains) that were just recycled and
put into this song. For example you can hear the same quatrains sung in 10/8 or 9/8 or 2/4 or 4/4. Not the ones in this song I mean but some of the
more widespread ones.
There ARE some bands now that I think about it that recorded laz bar in just a 2/4. But these are the minority. And it may have been due to the band's
inability to grasp the 7/8 meter. I think Artie Barsamian recorded one in like a 6/8 or something but that seems clearly incorrect....although how do
I know. But yeah that would be an absolute minority like 2 recordings I've heard.
On the other hand, its not illegitimate to change this into a 2/4 or 4/4 song. The Gomidas Band took Reuben Sarkisian's version of Laz Bar and sang it
in a 4/4. They just didn't call it a Laz Bar they called it "Hye Dghakner" which was the first words of the song. They transformed it from a "Laz Bar"
to a kind of generic dance tune. I guess some might argue this is "inauthentic" since the Gomidas Band was American born (George Mgrdichian played
with them before taking off with his solo career). But one of the 2/4 recordings labelled as laz bar i mentioned above was played by an immigrant band
of guys born in the ottoman empire...so using a 2/4 could represent an authentic variation, either that or they were from an area unfamiliar with the
song and were unable to do a 7/8. Or they decided to only play the fast part...? Who knows...
There are also other slightly different melodies and other sets of lyrics for laz bar in both Armenian and Turkish. Hagopian plays the same melody as
Douzjian, I guess you could call it the standard melody since everyone plays it that way now. All the Turkish versions I've heard use the "standard"
melody as well. Its still a popular dance although no one under 50 seems to know it. Its a difficult dance I've been trying to learn it for years and
incidentally almost figured it out last weekend at an event.
Harry
hartun - 10-2-2013 at 09:32 AM
In conclusion I would say one could play this song in 2/4, but then you can't call it a laz bar anymore.
adamgood - 10-2-2013 at 11:33 AM
Harry thank you for clarifying so much it's really interesting. The esoteric stuff in your head is much appreciated at least by me!
I know the instrumental break in 7/8 pops up very often, in fact I just heisted it for a Sephardic melody in one of our groups here.
The song melody for Hai Aghchig Char Aghchig, do you have any recordings in Turkish?? I'd love to hear!
Thanks always
Adam
hartun - 10-2-2013 at 11:04 PM
In conclusion I would say one could play this song in 2/4, but then you can't call it a laz bar anymore.
hartun - 10-7-2013 at 03:32 PM
Ok so I sort of have a Turkish version to share. "Hamsi Koydum Tavaya" (Although its only youtube). So I was actually wrong in what I said above. The
melody of hai aghchig char aghchig is not exactly the same as the "standard" one performed by richard hagopian. we can look at 3 different versions of
laz bar based on the different strains used and in what combination. the same strains are used but they are in different combinations. however, the
version of laz bar that has turkish words only uses the "B" strain which is not used at all in "Hai Aghchig Char Aghchig" (see below)
So technically no, I have no Turkish or even other Armenian words for Douzjian's song but the internet does have Turkish words for Laz Bar. The (*)
denotes a sung part. There are also other Armenian folk lyrics for the melody for which there are the turkish lyrics "hamsi koydum tavaya" in addition
to Reuben Sarkisian's version for the same melody which he wrote himself. Here is another Armenian folk version with similar but not exact melody of
"hamsi koydum"
(scroll down and find "Palu's Laz Dance". Incidentally this website has a lot of interesting music although about half of it is from other places on
the web or "From What Strange Place")
http://www.houshamadyan.org/en/mapottomanempire/vilayetdiyarbekir/p...
OK so the breakdown of the strains of Laz Bar:
Laz Bar/Kef Time/R. Hagopian "Standard Armenian Laz Bar":
A B A B...solos...A :2/4 switch: C B
Hai Aghchig/M. Douzjian
A C* A C* A C*...solo...A(modified)
Laz (aka Hai Dghakner)/Reuben Sarkisian
C(partial) B* C(partial) B* C(partial) B*...solo...B :2/4 switch: C* E(based partially on C)
the "partial C" is the singing refrain of "hai aghchig char aghchig"
Hamsi Koydum Tavaya (Greek performers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nla3__TL3yM&noredirect=1
only the "B" strain is heard
hamsi are anchovies for which the Black Sea is famous
turkish version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYHEQ52_os)
another greek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuMSNuoDVlk&noredirect=1)
Richard Hagopian also has a version with Turkish lyrics thats only on cassette and out of print. I'm pretty sure its the same melody as "hamsi koydum
tavaya" but I don't know if the lyrics are the same. I believe they are at least slightly different than those above because there are some lines that
i'm not hearing in the greek/turkish recordings that I remember from Richards. I also have an old turkish-turkish 78 of this too I dont even remember
what was on that if I ever digitize it or the other 78s or cassette i will post it in the forum.
Also note John Berberian has a recording entitled "Laz Bar" which melody is not originally a laz bar at all but a 7/8 Greek Mandilatos. But really
nothing beats the Douzjian version its just out of control isn't it?
Harry