Mike's Oud Forums

Dimitris copy of Jamil Bashir oud

mavrothis - 12-13-2013 at 08:39 PM

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhn6a3ekZDw

Jamil Bashir is one of my favorite players.

Jody Stecher - 12-13-2013 at 11:00 PM

Yes, there is something of the Jamil Bashir sound in this new oud, especially the re and la strings. I think that Jamil Bashir was an extraordinary musician. So expressive and soulful. His sound was fatter, wider, broader, than the sound of the new oud in the video. It might have been because of a heavier plectrum or different strings or different oud but probably he sounded the way he did because he was who he was. He got a plaintive wailing sound even on open courses so his left hand was not the cause of his remarkable sound. Probably if Jamil Bashir played this new Dimitri oud he would sound like Jamil Bashir.

There are some lovely examples on youtube of the playing of his teacher Sharif Mohiddin Targan where a similar technique may be heard but a different personality and also without the high sol course. Two good examples are Ferafezah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF8t32XBrw

and Hicaz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOCdqhVq38

More photos...

oudistcamp - 12-13-2013 at 11:21 PM

Dimitris Rapakousios recreated the pickguard of the original oud.

[file]29639[/file] [file]29641[/file]

[file]29643[/file]

majnuunNavid - 12-13-2013 at 11:38 PM

I wonder who will own this replica... I think Dimitri did a great job.

I didn't know that one of Jameel's teachers was Turkish, I always thought there was a hint of Turkish sound there...

Totally different topic but, I also feel that the Bashir brothers in general pause a lot after their phrases, and they play some Persian dastgah as well like dashti. In this, I feel their improvisation style is slower than other Oud players, and I feel this resembles Persian musical improvisation as well. Has anyone else had this feeling?

ameer - 12-14-2013 at 06:33 AM

Jammil Bashir is my favorite Iraqi player and the only one I generally listen to for any extend length of time. I think the sound of that oud comes quite close.

oudistcamp - 12-14-2013 at 07:48 AM

The owner of the JB oud is in Kuwait.
We were at Dimitris shop in October when the order was called in.
The conversation was in English :applause: :bowdown:

SamirCanada - 12-14-2013 at 08:35 AM

Amazing oud. Dimitris nailed as far as I am concerned. It will sound amazing in 20 years.

Congrats to the new owner.

Jody Stecher - 12-14-2013 at 08:52 AM

Sharif Muhiddin Targan was born in Istanbul but according to some accounts was of Arab lineage. He taught oud at the Music Institute in Baghdad and both Jamil Bashir and his younger brother Munir were his students. Munir's playing retains very little of his teacher's style and technique. I don't hear it anyway. And he slowed everything down. Jamil Bashir (and also Salman Shukur) show a lot of their teacher's influence in their oud playing. I don't hear anything in Jamil Bashir's playing that is slower than the oud playing from further west or from other Iraqi players. I don't hear it in his taqasim or in his playing of compositions. I do hear places where he is faster. The space between taqsim phrases is about 5 times shorter than in Sunbatti's playing (I just now timed it, using random samples of both players). Could you give some examples of what you mean?

As for Dashti, etc, I think that is part of "Assyrian" music which Jamil Bashir knew well.
Quote: Originally posted by majnuunNavid  
I wonder who will own this replica... I think Dimitri did a great job.

I didn't know that one of Jameel's teachers was Turkish, I always thought there was a hint of Turkish sound there...



Totally different topic but, I also feel that the Bashir brothers in general pause a lot after their phrases, and they play some Persian dastgah as well like dashti. In this, I feel their improvisation style is slower than other Oud players, and I feel this resembles Persian musical improvisation as well. Has anyone else had this feeling?

hamed - 12-14-2013 at 09:13 AM

This is a very cool topic.
Do we have any information about Jameel Bashir's oud made by Usta Ali, like string length, woods used etc. I imagine it would be a turkish standard 58.5 since Usta Ali was trained in the turkish tradition. Also, what details other than the pickgaurd resemble bashir's oud? Regardless i think the oud sounds amazing.

Jody Stecher - 12-14-2013 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by hamed  
This is a very cool topic.
Do we have any information about Jameel Bashir's oud made by Usta Ali, like string length, woods used etc. I imagine it would be a turkish standard 58.5 since Usta Ali was trained in the turkish tradition. Also, what details other than the pickgaurd resemble bashir's oud? Regardless i think the oud sounds amazing.


yes more info would be great. For instance what gauge string did he (and/or Dimitri) use for the high gg course? It would have to be awfully light or the oud would implode. Jamil Bashir's playing often sounds like the oud is about EXplode.

mavrothis - 12-14-2013 at 05:22 PM

Hi,

I'm pretty sure the string length for both the original and copy are 57 cm.

For string gauge, you could probably just look at a typical D'Addario set and extend the gauge to the g'g' double course accordingly. For example, their unwound aa pair has gauges of .028", their d'd' pair has a string gauge of .022" so the higher g'g' of Jamil Bashir could have gauges of .016" if that exists, or as close as you could find (maybe .018" would work - Brian at oudstrings.com might have suggestions).

The shorter string length allows for a little higher gauge...

fadel - 12-15-2013 at 04:37 AM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sNFyCjv83cY

hamed - 12-18-2013 at 05:47 PM

Here are some ouds made by the famous Usta Ali, i can see the resemblance to Bashir's oud. What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyEl2Hq6jRM (see 3:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiBS_b3No0k ( this one is made by Usta Ali's son)

Does anyone have an more info about these builders?