Mike's Oud Forums

Help me with Arabic

spyblaster - 12-18-2013 at 10:21 AM

Hi

Can you guys tell me what do they call "Bassy sound" (damn I even don't know the correct term in English!!!) in Arabic?
I wanna point to an oud with deep bass sound (not a giant bass oud obviously) in Persian we call it Bamkhan oud عود بم خوان
The opposite is the sharp "triblish" sound (again I don't know the English word, sorry!) and we call it Zirkhan oud عود زیرخوان
The second is exactly how Bashir-style ouds sound. I wanna point to exact opposite sound, please help me.
P.S. If possible, write it in arabic letteres too.

Thanks a lot

SamirCanada - 12-18-2013 at 10:49 AM

Hi there,
I have heard the word hanoon حنون commonly used to describe that type of sound and/or 3atfi عاطفيwhich also means soulfull.

spyblaster - 12-18-2013 at 11:08 AM

Thanks Samir :)

Alfaraby - 12-18-2013 at 12:18 PM

Bassy sound is Rakheem رخيم

spyblaster - 12-18-2013 at 12:49 PM

thanks Faraby
now it's getting a little complicated, I know there are some differences between different Arabic dialects. I have already had some problems talking to him. For instance, I wanted to mention the pick guard and I used the word raqma, but he had no idea what im talking about. until I sent him a picture highlighting the raqma and he said "u mean al madhreb" in arabic of course.
my friend is a very famous Iraqi luthier, please let me know if I need more words.

SamirCanada - 12-18-2013 at 01:31 PM

Please use Al-Faraby's input, i was just sharing how I have heard it said in the circle of my arab musicians friends.

Alfaraby - 12-18-2013 at 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by spyblaster  
my friend is a very famous Iraqi luthier, please let me know if I need more words.

There are major differences between various dialects in the Arab world. Spoken Arabic is not one language like the written language. I may meet an Arab and won't understand a word of what he says, and vise versa. All the more so when technical language is involved. Pliers, file or vise might be different in colloquial Egyptian Arabic and Moroccan or Saudi or Lebanese/Syrian. This is a good time however to start a new topic titled i.e. :

"Arabic Oud Terminology in the Arab World".
Let's start here:

Bowl: Qasa'a قصعة , Tassa طاسة , Dahr ظهر , Sandouq صندوق
Soundboard: Sat-ha سطحة , Sadr صدر Wajeh وجه
Fingerboard: Meraya مراية , Sateh Alzend سطح الزند
Neck: Zend زند, Yad يد , Raqabah رقبة
Pegbox: Banjaq بنجق , Beit Mafateeh بيت المفاتيح , Beit Malawy بيت الملاوي
Pegs: Malawy, Mafateeh ملاوي ، مفاتيح
Nut: Anf أنف , Mekhadda مخدّة
Neck-block: Loqmah لقمة
Tail-block : Ka3b كعب
Rib: Del3 ضلع , Reeshah ريشة
Braces: Josour جسور , Kabari كباري
Bridge: Faras فرس أو فرسة , Ghazal غزال Mosht مشط , Marbat مربط , Jahsh جحش
Soundhole: Qamriah قمرية , Fat-ha فتحة
Rosette: Shamsiah شمسية Wardah وردة
Pickguard: Raqmah رقمة , Midrab مضرب
ِِAction: Dossah دوسة
Joint (Neck and bowl): Hijab حجاب
Buzzing: Zannah زنّة , Wazzah وزّة Tazzah طزّة

Any other words ? Pleas add

This was only a sample of what would it be like to talk oud in the Arab world. It's not that bad at all. So cheer up.
As a matter of fact there is no one Arab world in almost anything. Each and every village may have its own jargon in every life detail. Some agricultural terminology of the Syrian country for instance can be Gibberish for the neighbouring town; at least to my ear, it may sound like Flemish or Hungarian !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Brian Prunka - 12-18-2013 at 03:39 PM

Alfaraby, thanks so much for this list. Would you mind indicating the regions where you know each to be used?

epokhe - 12-18-2013 at 09:09 PM

I like Alfaraby's idea, it should definitely become an independent thread.

It may also be useful to include some other categories for translation, in addition to technical terminology. Actually this would count more as transliteration, but how about the names of master luthiers in Arabic script (where applicable)? When someone who doesn't read Arabic inspects a label printed in this language, at least they would able to check the list for names of potential luthiers -- and so have a better chance of identifying the instrument, etc.

(Unless this already exists? Maybe I missed it in my search. If not, I would be happy to start by listing as many luthiers as I can think of, just to get the list off the ground. Then others can add the missing names.)

majnuunNavid - 12-18-2013 at 09:34 PM

This is actually a very important thread! I would love to have reference for these words and luthiers as well.:applause:

Arabic and English transliteration is fantastic, especially for those of us that can read the letters, but don't understand it.

Ahmed - 12-18-2013 at 10:28 PM

Thank you Alfaraby, that was very useful, I did not know most of those words/expressions!

I would add the following to the list

Tuning: Dawazan دوزان
String: Watar وتر
Strings: Awtar اوتار
Floating bridge: Faras mutaharik فرس متحرك

Oud Freak - 12-18-2013 at 11:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Quote: Originally posted by spyblaster  
my friend is a very famous Iraqi luthier, please let me know if I need more words.

There are major differences between various dialects in the Arab world. Spoken Arabic is not one language like the written language. I may meet an Arab and won't understand a word of what he says, and vise versa. All the more so when technical language is involved. Pliers, file or vise might be different in colloquial Egyptian Arabic and Moroccan or Saudi or Lebanese/Syrian. This is a good time however to start a new topic titled i.e. :

"Arabic Oud Terminology in the Arab World".
Let's start here:

Bowl: Qasa'a قصعة , Tassa طاسة , Dahr ظهر , Sandouq صندوق
Soundboard: Sat-ha سطحة , Sadr صدر Wajeh وجه
Fingerboard: Meraya مراية , Sateh Alzend سطح الزند
Neck: Zend زند, Yad يد , Raqabah رقبة
Pegbox: Banjaq بنجق , Beit Mafateeh بيت المفاتيح , Beit Malawy بيت الملاوي
Pegs: Malawy, Mafateeh ملاوي ، مفاتيح
Nut: Anf أنف , Mekhadda مخدّة
Neck-block: Loqmah لقمة
Tail-block : Ka3b كعب
Rib: Del3 ضلع , Reeshah ريشة
Braces: Josour جسور , Kabari كباري
Bridge: Faras فرس أو فرسة , Ghazal غزال Mosht مشط , Marbat مربط , Jahsh جحش
Soundhole: Qamriah قمرية , Fat-ha فتحة
Rosette: Shamsiah شمسية Wardah وردة
Pickguard: Raqmah رقمة , Midrab مضرب
ِِAction: Dossah دوسة
Joint (Neck and bowl): Hijab حجاب
Buzzing: Zannah زنّة , Wazzah وزّة Tazzah طزّة

Any other words ? Pleas add

This was only a sample of what would it be like to talk oud in the Arab world. It's not that bad at all. So cheer up.
As a matter of fact there is no one Arab world in almost anything. Each and every village may have its own jargon in every life detail. Some agricultural terminology of the Syrian country for instance can be Gibberish for the neighbouring town; at least to my ear, it may sound like Flemish or Hungarian !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby



Those linguistics are really interesting :D

In the Lebanese jargon, a brace is often called "ja7sh" جحش , braces (plural) are j7ash "جحاش".

The word literally means "donkey" - but in the jargon it can mean piece of wood or table, especially the ironing board.

spyblaster - 12-19-2013 at 05:06 AM

LOL you know in Persian we call the bridge Kharak خرک . It means small donkey. Seems like donkeys have a history with ouds :D
I agree with you guys, not only we should make a new thread, but the thread should also be pinned.
and knowing the regions/dialects are very important as well. I can say that Ghazal and Madhreb are Iraqi.
of course the obvious workaround is to try all words till your listener understands you :D

majnuunNavid - 12-19-2013 at 08:26 PM

The donkey reference makes a lot of sense. Donkeys bear loads, as does the bridge of ouds bear the load of strings and the braces support the Oud face.