Hi everyone,
I am in desperate need of a performance quality Arabic oud and I am thinking about trying to get my hands on an oud by Abu Alaa. I played several a
few years back and was very much impressed by the sound and construction of the instruments. Does anyone here own an Abu Alaa oud? If so, what is your
opinion with the instruments and what models do you have? Any input on these ouds and ANY other available performance quality Arabic ouds that any of
you may have is much appreciated, thank you!ameer - 1-17-2014 at 09:24 AM
I can't speak to the quality of Abu Alaa's ouds, but I'm selling my Michael Moussa Gamil Georges replica. Najib Shaheen has redone the action and pegs
on it so that it plays and tunes beautifully. More info here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14379Alfaraby - 1-17-2014 at 01:24 PM
Location ? Amos - 1-18-2014 at 10:49 AM
Thanks Ameer, I will check the link. Alfaraby I am in Maine in the Northeastern US. Alfaraby - 1-18-2014 at 01:44 PM
I think our fellow member Shareen has one. She's in NY area. Close enough ?
I have clarified earlier: Abu Ala'a is Abu Ala'a, not Bashir. The latter is his second son.
Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfarabyrojaros - 1-18-2014 at 04:08 PM
Check out Sebastian Stenzel. He has built a fantastic oud for me. There are pictures on the forum here and he has a website.
best
RobertAlfaraby - 1-18-2014 at 05:05 PM
Stenzel's oud starts from 4900€, while Abu Ala'a's oud starts from less than a grand. The same as to master luthier Kamil Mowais. The very best of
them both may reach double as much.
4900 € = 6650 $ !
Abdo Nahat the great's oud may come close to that much.
Q: Why does a luthier who has built an oud and a half ask for 3 or 5 times the oud made by a luthier who had built more than a thousand in the last 50
years ?
And please don't tell me Europe is expensive. Here's even more.
I wonder !!!!
Take Abu Alaa's oud & run
Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby bulerias1981 - 1-18-2014 at 10:04 PM
To answer your question why a luthier would charge differently..
Listen, this is someone's craft.. its their art. Charging more than someone else doesn't mean a luthier thinks hes better, and charging less doesn't
mean a luthier isn't as good.
A luthier that sells an instrument for 4900 Euro is someone who has decided that they want to make $30 an hour. I respect that. Someone who decides to
sell an oud for $1000 basically decides to earn $5 an hour. I also respect that, as it's their choice.
Lets never forget, there isn't a great violin for under $10,000, and in Europe, no luthier making quality instruments will consider working for $5 an
hour.
Ultimately the player has to play the instrument and if it speaks to him, he has to decide.
No matter what you do for a living, no one has a right to say you should earn less, especially if someone creates beautiful art that sings!
As for Abu Ala'a, I've never played one, but they look great, and I'm sure they are as good as they look.rojaros - 1-19-2014 at 10:20 AM
A well made flute costs around 15,000 Euro with almost no limits up. A new master grade cello will hardly be available under 30,000 Euro, most likely
much much more.
These instruments do not require much more work than a well made oud or guitar.
So on this scale asking what Stenzel asks for an oud is humble.
And the sheer number of instruments made or the years spent building doesn't ensure a good outcome at all. In Granada, Spain, I once was searching for
a classical guitar. I met some guitar makers who had dispatched numberless guitars of very mediocre quality, becaue they were not inquisitive and did
not strive to improve their art. Just repeating the same motions all over again didn't make them great masters.
So please don't criticize others without any basis. Nobody is forced to pay for an instrument he doesn't want in first place. Stenzel has built a
great oud from the start and I'm sure his next will be even greater... But that's of course just my taste...
The sheer number of instruments made or the years spent building doesn't ensure a good outcome.
So please don't criticize others without any basis ...
Dear fellow,
The man is asking about Abu Ala'a's ouds, not just any other maker who has built hundreds of ouds without "good outcome".
Abu Ala'a has been building quality ouds for the last 40 years. He has dedicated himself to oud making and quit his job for this sake. He's not like
any other maker, not in Granada, nor anywhere else !
"Without any basis" ? Well, if you just took trouble to read what I had written the last couple of years, you wouldn't have said so.
One way or another, to ask 6650 $ for your second/third oud, you must (post factum) be Abdo Nahhat or Antonio de Torres. Period
A luthier that sells an instrument for 4900 Euro .. decided that he wants to make $30 an hour.
Come on John
! An oud does need 222 hours to be built ! You know that pretty well
No offense to Mr. Stenzel (on the contrary, I have great respect for the luthier) but if the maker is just a beginner tyro oud maker who needs
hundreds of hours to build an oud, costumers don't have to pay for his learning/practicing hours. I have witnessed Master Luthier Kamil Mowais
building an oud within a week of 40-45, or so, working hours. Well, he has built more than a thousand ouds at least throughout his career, so he
needed less hours, therefore charged fifth as much !
Makes sense !
Cheers fellows ! All have the right to say what they think.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby Amos - 1-19-2014 at 04:38 PM
Thanks everyone for the input and the lively conversation...I appreciate the ideas. I will keep looking and invite any other information out there. As
usual, this forum proves to be an invaluable resource. شكرا جزيلاًDr. Oud - 1-19-2014 at 05:21 PM
Well, I think saying someone chooses to make $5 instead of $30 sounds like a Tea Party politician who says the poor are lazy and the unemployed won't
work. Prices of all commodities are regulated by market forces, supply and demand. If there was more demand for quality ouds, the prices would reflect
it. As long as the are ouds on eBay for $200, and people buy them, it will diminish the value of better instruments. There simply are not enough
serious musicians who want and will pay for quality ouds to make a viable market for them.
(BTW I was in a guitar exposition recently where 1957 Fender telecasters were selling for $30,000. These were factory made, assembly line guitars. Go
figger.)Masel - 1-19-2014 at 10:25 PM
i think also a factor is your target customers. abu ala is in competition with gawharat al fan and other cheap brands becuae more people here in the
holy land are beginners looking to buy a cheap instrument not a real one. this forces the makers to lower the already low prices.
i dont know this wentzel luthier you discuss but i imagine that
1) he builds not only ouds
2)his clients are not only oud players
3) he probably appeals to more "boutique" crowds so the higer price actually adds some credibility (in appearnace, i dont know him or his
instruments)
because there are so many mass produced cheap ouds unfortunately luthiers suffer from thisrojaros - 1-19-2014 at 10:35 PM
When I do my math, if luthier X would charge 5,000 Euro for an oud, and he would need 100 hours, he would make 50 Euros on an hour before he paid for
the workshop rent, tools replacement, materials, and, above all, taxes and insurances, which in our country are somewhere between 40%-45% of the
income (roughly estimated). So all in all it would make 25 Euros per hour, or rather less, as actual income.
Now, if you go to a car garage or call a plumbing man, they'll ask you to pay at least 45 to 55 Euro per hour.
As to the duration of the construction of an oud, of course one can speed up with experience and expertise, but this has it's limits if unconditioned
quality is to be maintained (BTW I paid less for the oud exactly on the grounds that Mr. Stenzel didn't want me to charge the lack of routine, this
oud being his first, but apart from the lack of routine he was exactly knowing what he was doing - I was often watching him working).
If you would see the quality of this work, which is unexcelled by any other instrument I have seen, you would understand that it is well worth the
extra hours he invests in a product of highest quality, which is a piece of art. I doubt you could built with this care for detail an oud within a
week, but well I'm not the one to judge.
Now the final point: it is not him trying to push himself into the oud building market. It was me who actually asked him to built one for me, when I
learnt that he was pondering an oud construction since almost 20 years and when he told me his ideas. He himself described the process in the link
shared in my post Link to my post.
He loves the oud and is willing to build on orders, but he has so much work with guitars, so that anybody has really to want to obtain one from him
and then he might build one.
I don't like getting involved in this thread like this. But for the good of the forum when someone asks about a certain maker let's try to please be
polite and refrain from hijacking the thread by bringing in other makers to plug them.rojaros - 1-26-2014 at 10:51 PM
I don't like getting involved in this thread like this. But for the good of the forum when someone asks about a certain maker let's try to please be
polite and refrain from hijacking the thread by bringing in other makers to plug them.
I did not mean to 'hijack' the thread at all, but I see what you mean. Please delete my post in this thread, if possible.
Sorry
best wishes
RobertSamirCanada - 1-27-2014 at 06:03 AM
Its ok no need to delete Robert, thanks for your understanding.
