Mike's Oud Forums

What causes the sonic differences between Arabic and Turkish Style ouds

Jaffa Road - 3-12-2014 at 08:05 AM

I always thought that the larger body and longer scale length of Arabic style ouds must have a lot to do with the differences in tone.

My newest oud is smaller and shorter scale than my Turkish oud.

this Ziryab oud has a smaller body and only 57cm scale.

It has a tone that I think sounds much more like an Arabic oud, so my idea about size must be wrong.

Is it interior bracing etc.

What is different in construction techniques that causes the differences?

SamirCanada - 3-12-2014 at 10:53 AM

You are right, size doesnt matter :D
no really, you can find big ouds which sound small and small ouds which sound huge. It depends on many factors.

Tuning, Strings, bracing and Scale length are all factors in my opinion. Just as an example, you can tune a turkish oud to arabic tuning and sometimes it can turn out sounding like a great arabic oud, sometimes better than what it sounds like as a turkish oud because the bracing reacts more with the frequencies used in Arabic tuning.

My opinion as a oud maker, I have noticed that the shape and location of braces basically encourages different responses to frequency vibration. I dont have the means to try and tune each brace so I use my intuition. Anyhow, when you play a good arabic oud, you notice there are some notes which make the sound board react a lot more than others in a good way this is due to the bracing. After it's assembled, if the soundboard is tuned to resonate with the major dominant tones in the arabic maqamat then you end up with a great Arabic sound. The profile of a good arabic sound may be different for you and I. I think to me personally, the most important notes are the F on the dd string and the open G. That f when you finger it, it has to vibrate in your belly and rawr almost. That G must be free of echo but yet sound airy and clear at the same time. The old ouds often have this kind of sound.

Oud Freak - 3-19-2014 at 01:11 AM

Samir gave an accurate scientific answer which is definitely a huge factor.

Would like to add that I have heard and tried arabic ouds by turkish and/or greek makers. They sound gorgeous, however they still have somewhere their native turkish accent, in spite of them being built according to arabic shape, dimensions and brace tuning.

I also believe that if a luthier from the arabic zone (lebanon, syria, egypt, etc...) builds a turkish oud, it will probably carry a sort of arabic accent, without being pure turkish.
In addition to scientific data and measurements, it is also in the hands and feeling of the maker. God bless them all!

hussamd - 3-19-2014 at 03:43 AM

I had a chance to try a Turkish/Arabic scale and an Arabic (Mr Ghadban's) and there is a difference in the sound. The Ghadban oud is a monster at 63cm scale length and lately has been punching me in the gut when I hit the A note on the gg string. I had replaced that set with a wound gg version but ended up going back to the nylon gg since I could not take the abuse :D

Alfaraby - 3-19-2014 at 02:25 PM

I can't agree more with what Samir & Oud Freak has mentioned. Well worded Samir. Hurray.

A well known Turkish luthier, often mentioned here in our forum with due respect, once repaired an Abdo Nahhat's oud and the "monster" started speaking Arabic with a very heavy Turkish accent never heard before. The owner had to take it back to his country (Arab of course) and have it mended by a local luthier in order to fix the "Turkish syndrome" his beloved "son" started suffering from.

On the other hand, a local luthier around here managed to copy a Faruk's 1:1; but the newly born baby's first scream was of a clear heavy Arabic sound, no matter how it was tuned.

BRACING is the mystery; there lie the secrets of the quiz. Egyptians call the space between D, G braces "The Safe" where all the treasures are hidden. Any minor changes made in these main braces can cause a huge difference on the outcome. Every maker can tell from his own experience that moving a brace 5-10 mm froward or backward would affect the the the depth, the quality of the sound, just as to the overall projection. I'm not a maker, though I have heard this many times from almost every maker I had the honor to meet or talk to.

One last important thing: the STRINGS. A matching, suitable excellent quality set of strings makes better sounds, and vice versa. Choosing the right set for Turkish or Arabic ouds shall contribute improving the quality of the same ouds sound. One can't just take a Turkish oud and lower the tuning a whole step down and here you go: you've got an Arabic oud. The same as to an Arabic oud: you don't just tune it a full tone higher to "turkish" it (aside from the expected damage to the soundboard).
I may dare & bet on an excellent set, that it may make any good Arabic oud sing Turkish, and vice versa. Haven't done that before but maybe someone may.

Yours indeed,
Alfaraby

jack - 3-19-2014 at 07:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
Just as an example, you can tune a turkish oud to arabic tuning and sometimes it can turn out sounding like a great arabic oud, sometimes better than what it sounds like as a turkish oud because the bracing reacts more with the frequencies used in Arabic tuning. .


This raises an interesting point upon which I am totally ignorant, but have wanted to raise out of curiosity in the past. This is because I have a Sandi Turkish oud of fairly decent quality, which I have tuned to DGAdgc, and it sounds fabulous. The clarity of the notes, and the rich voicing are obvious. So I was wondering if this is a common occurrence: that a Turkish oud sounds good in Arabic tuning. I'd love to hear opinions.