Hello,
I am new here.
I am currently restoring a very old oud.
I was wondering if someone can recognize the maker of the oud on the sticker? (see picture)
if now, please translate what is written on the sticker, for the ones who can read arabic on this forum...
Thank you very much!hussamd - 3-17-2014 at 05:22 AM
The label says:
Made by
Jurjy Hanna Nahhat
Shaam (Syria), Qaimariyya place
SamirCanada - 3-17-2014 at 05:35 AM
The Nahat family as you may or may not know are considered to be the Stradivarius and Amati of the oud making world. Their ouds are considered
priceless.
I am not sure what your oud making or luthiery background is but I will say to please research the way ouds are made and avoid adding structural
strengthening methods that are used in classical guitar making such as cleats etc... it will kill the sound of a oud. Like I said I am not making
reference to your knowlege of ouds as we dont know but to be fair anyone somewhat involved in the oud world should be able to recognize this label.
I am speaking of experience as I have seen a nice old syrian oud repaired by someone with a guitar background who used a thick wood caul under the
bridge to bolt it down. Please see picture of what I am refering to.
I guess what I am saying is try your best to keep it in upmost original condition and to replicate the bracing in the most identical way possible.
Wishing you the best with the restoration. let us know if you need advice.
[file]30844[/file]contraoctave - 3-17-2014 at 08:28 AM
Hello again,
Thank you for your responses!
I am aware of the name " Nahat" but I am very surprised that this oud is a Nahat....
it has very modest decoration. the rosette does not appear to be original,
and I intend to replace it.
there is a big crack in the back bowl.
the neck is a little loose.
the head was loose and was bolted with 2 bolts to the neck,
also there was a fingerboard glued on top of the neck, which I already removed.
the bridge was also very loose with a lot of white glue behind it, which was evidence of a very poor repair.
I attached several pictures to show the state of the oud.
1. should the top have a concave radius? (to accomodate proper string height above the neck?
2. I plan to glue on kerfing to the rim. I see no other way of attaching the top. is this ok?
3. I plan to implant 2 hard wood rods in the neck to strengthen the bond between the neck and body.
4. any ideas as to how to fix the head?
5. I am missing a few tuner keys, does any one here on the forum produce these?
btw, my background is as a classical guitar maker. I have 10 years of experience working with musical instruments, I intend to keep as many original
parts as possible, replicate a new rosette, new bindings and make this oud sing.
thank you for your interest and advice!
SamirCanada - 3-17-2014 at 09:17 AM
yeah this one isnt all original or in very good shape.
Excellent to have you on the forums please post your updates so we can follow along this project.
thanks. Brian Prunka - 3-17-2014 at 09:34 AM
Good luck with this project, I am sure you will soon have all the advice you can stand!
I sell pegs in my store, they are actually mostly sold out right now, but I should have more by the time you are ready to install them. I have some
different styles, mostly modeled on the style of pegs found on some old Nahat ouds. Feel free to contact me to discuss.
By the way, you are correct that the big rosette is certainly not original. It's hard to tell from the photos, but the small rosettes could be.
The bridge looks like it might be, so I would try to save it if you can. When making new purfling, try to match the existing design. The visual
style of Nahat ouds is considered important by many.Brian Prunka - 3-17-2014 at 09:40 AM
I am speaking of experience as I have seen a nice old syrian oud repaired by someone with a guitar background who used a thick wood caul under the
bridge to bolt it down. Please see picture of what I am refering to.
Dr. Oud - 3-17-2014 at 11:52 AM
Nahhat ouds sometimes have a slight concave soundboard, not more than 3/16-1/4 at the brace forward of the bridge below the small holes (eyun). Some
were flat, whatever.
Do not add corner kerfing to support the face. This will dampen the soundboard and reduce the oud's value. The face of a traditional oud actually
floats on the braces, and is attached to the top ribs only through the edge butt joint to the edging. For this oud the edging is a tile type which
makes it even more fragile, but that is what makes an oud sound the way it should. If you change the edging it will reduce the value. Replicate
everything to the original, no matter how fragile it seems. These instruments are the result of thousands of years of experience and they sound like
they do because of how they are built.
Reinforcing the neck/body joint is ok and may be necessary, but I usually just make the butt joint very flat and use a single dowel about 3/4 inches
into the neck and body block. Multiple dowels, dovetails, square beams don't provide any more strength than a good flush tight butt joint. Use hide
glue here and pre-seal each surface prior to the final bond.
The neck repair will require a tongue to strengthen the top of the neck under the fingerboard. The neck often breaks here (as did this one) because
the notch is simply too deep in the neck and there's not enough material left to resist the string tension. Once the pegbox glue loosens, the neck
will split, it cannot be successfully re-glued to regain structural integrity. I attached some pictures of a similar repair adding a stiffener into
the neck under the fingerboard into the neck 1 1/2 inch and through the peg box block.
[file]30872[/file] [file]30874[/file]contraoctave - 3-17-2014 at 09:03 PM
Thank you very much for your response, particularly Dr. Oud!
I will save the original braces, and relocate them at their original location.
I will certainly try to not use any kind of kerfing.. perhaps I can sit the braces themselves on wooden "shelves"?
I'm not sure this can be done because the top is very deformed and will need a proper surface to be glued to...
I would appreciate it if anyone here could share some Georgi Nahat rosette designs that I can print.
I wonder if the rosette should be made out of some wood ply or perhaps there is another material? I don't suspect it's possible to access such a big
piece of bone.
Thanks again!Dr. Oud - 3-18-2014 at 07:04 AM
Forget the shelves. Just glue the braces to the face and the edging to the edge of the face. Too much support will dampen the sound and diminish the
value accordingly. It is supposed to be fragile. you should abandon your guitar structure perspective.
You can laminate sheets of bone on a hardwood plate. When the design is cut you won't be able to see the seams. Hide glue works best for these
materials.
The bone plates are thick enough to bandsaw to make 2 laminate plates. Get enough length to overlap the hole by 1/4in.
You can also laminate hardwood veneers in thin plates, although the old makers just used a solid piece of dense hardwood. Clear cherry, maple, beech,
etc works well (random flat grain), rosewood, other exotic hardwoods - not (too much straight grain, & brittle).
You can copy any rose image from my Nahhat website and print it, then you'll need to re-print it to a scale to match your oud's sound hole.
Take your time and avoid trying to improve the design. Those guys knew what they were doing, and no one has done it any better. You're welcome. suz_i_dil - 3-19-2014 at 01:55 PM
Maybe you can consider half binding edge for the soundboard. It hasn't been done on your specific oud, but great oud maker use this technic nowadays
with great results. As far as I know with the few ouds I tried (Belhaiba and Turunz among a few names).
JDowning, memeber on this forum, made a thread showing us this technique was used also in the past.
A search on the forum will bring you results explaining what I'm talking about. But I think on guitar a similar technique is use.
braces should be glued direclty to the bowl, without any kind of shelves. But I have seen a few good made oud with reinforcement between braces (not
all the braces only the most weak areas). "Contre éclisse " in french. On those exemples, they were never glue to the brace . Only a small piece of
wood in the corner between bowl and soundboard, not reaching the braces. I don't think it is a "must have " feature, moreover if you don't aim to use
very high tension of strings
oh, about half binding there s a thread with ideas to make a simple tool for it. I did it on a sounndboard I'm working on with a marking gauge and a
chisel... tricky for a beginner like me !
Good luck for restaurationsuz_i_dil - 3-19-2014 at 01:58 PM
I have this plane from lee valley. very inexpensive and high quality. Dr. Oud - 3-19-2014 at 05:18 PM
In regards to string tension: any antique instrument over 50 years of age will have lost some of the cellular strength in the wood of the soundboard.
Use only low tension strings, like Turkish gauge strings on this oud. Even medium tension strings can pull the bridge off the face, and often this
results in a hole in the face. The only fix is to patch in a section of the face, which loses the aged tone characteristic of the original soundboard.suz_i_dil - 3-20-2014 at 10:26 AM
