Mike's Oud Forums

Türünz Turkish & Arabic Oud Comparison

DavidJE - 6-1-2014 at 06:57 AM

I've just uploaded a video comparing my Turkish and Arabic ouds from Faruk Türünz:

(Video Removed. I need to get the audio situation down better and make a better comparison. Then I will add a new video link here.)

I've looked for such a video in the past myself, but never been able to find one, so I hope it's helpful for anyone trying to decide between the two, or interested in the difference between the sound.

As I wrote in the description. Both ouds have Kürschner strings and I used the same pick for both. Obviously the recording and distance from the camera was also the same. I also tried to play roughly the same bits in each section of the video. I wanted to try to remove everything but the difference between the way the ouds are built to have the most accurate comparison.

The audio was recorded with my camcorder (an older mid-range Canon), so it's not fantastic. But I do find it more accurate than my Blue Yeti Pro microphone, particularly when listening with a good quality headset.

The only issue I should possibly mention is that the strings on the Arabic oud have been on it for about 3 months, although I doubt it was played much when at Faruk's shop. However, I just put the strings on the Turkish oud two days ago. So they may be a little "too new" sounding.

Thoughts?

Jody Stecher - 6-1-2014 at 08:43 AM

I think the 2 ouds have similar sounds in this particular video. When heard as a vowel the sound of your turkish oud is closer to aw and the sound of your arabic oud is closer to ah. But they are not far apart. I realize I am hearing the playback of a recording and not the real thing so you may be hearing larger real differences.

The biggest difference I can hear is that more pairs of strings are better tuned on the Turkish oud so it doesn't produce as many "beats" (pulsing oscillations from a pair of tones tuned very close to each other) as the Arabic oud is doing. The Arabic oud seems to perhaps have more bass resonance but I can't be sure since it is playing lower pitches. If instead of playing the same fingerings on the two ouds you played the same absolute pitches we'd have a better idea about how each oud responds. For instance if you played a phrase in makam rast on the turkish oud using the usual fingering, the pitch Rast would be European/American "D". Then play the same phrase on the Arabic oud transposing the fingering a step up using the open third course to produce D etc….then we'd have a more complete comparison.

Another kind of comparison could be made by not (necessarily) using the same pick and the same type of string but instead to use the strings and pick that brings out the best sound on each oud. Show what each oud is capable of when sounded with the ideal equipment for playing that particular oud.

Also there is the question of how the bass courses color the sound. To do a more complete comparison one might also see what each oud sounds like when tuned alike ( a step apart). How does the turkish oud sound when the lower courses are tuned to D and G ? That would replicate the arabic tuning a step higher. How does the Arabic oud sound when the lower courses are tuned to B and E? That would replicate the Turkish tuning a step lower.

Finally (?) one could string and tune each oud identically. An expensive and time consuming test but it would be most informative. The scale of each is 58.5, right? So how does each oud sound and respond in turkish tuning with turkish type strings? How does each oud respond in arabic tuning strung with arabic type strings? This kind of test ignores what each oud was designed to do but it could provide useful information all the same.

DavidJE - 6-1-2014 at 09:01 AM

Thanks Jody. Good points.

Regarding the actual sound... Aside from my own impression, my wife and a couple of friends have heard the two ouds side by side. My wife says she prefers the sound of the Arabic oud significantly. She says she hears a big difference in the warmth of the sound. I can't necessarily say I prefer one over the other at this point. They're just different to me. But they do sound like very different ouds in person. The best way that *I* can describe it, with my limited musical vocabulary and experience, is that the soundboard seems "thicker" on the Arabic oud. It sounds less "light" and it just has a different quality to it. From what I've heard of "Turkish" and "Arabic" ouds, the Turkish oud does sound more Turkish and the Arabic oud more Arabic.

So you're saying that I didn't have the Arabic oud tuned as well as the Turkish oud, in terms of the pairs of strings being perfectly "aligned"? That's possible.

I did think about playing the same absolute pitches. I should probably remake the video doing that...at some point.

Yes, I agree with you that a comparison should be made with the most optimal strings/pick/tuning on each oud. That's going to take some time for me to figure out...years...to test different strings, picks, etc. But I think that would be the "best" test.

And, I'm unlikely to go to the trouble of putting different strings on each oud just for the test, switching them out, etc. It would be interesting, but I dislike changing the strings as it is! Anyway, who knows. Maybe I will at some point, as that would also provide useful info.

Jody Stecher - 6-1-2014 at 09:16 AM

I also dislike changing strings and consequently let it go too long, until my strings sound like warped rubber bands.

Yes, the pitches do not quite match on some of the courses on both ouds, but it was better on the Turkish one and better on the Arabic one this time than in the previous video where you played the swing version (long/short, long/short) of Nikriz Longa.

Beats go wah wah wah wah. They pulsate faster as the two pitches get closer. Put one member of a pair of strings obviously flat of the other and you can hear this happening as you slowly tune the flat string to a perfect unison with the other member of the course, at which point the wah wah vanishes.

I wasn't really expecting you to do all those different tests. I was just looking at the issue from different angles.

I think both ouds are beautiful and sound beautiful.

hussamd - 6-1-2014 at 09:38 AM

They both sound great. The Turkish one is a bit brighter, while the Arabic one sounds like the mids are cut a bit. I like the Arabic sound best. I would be happy with either one. Enjoy.

DavidJE - 6-1-2014 at 09:50 AM

Quote:
Beats go wah wah wah wah. They pulsate faster as the two pitches get closer. Put one member of a pair of strings obviously flat of the other and you can hear this happening as you slowly tune the flat string to a perfect unison with the other member of the course, at which point the wah wah vanishes.


Ah...thank you Jody. That's very helpful. :) Maybe I should delete those videos and remake them with the strings tuned better... Not tonight though.

Oud Freak - 6-3-2014 at 01:17 AM

Would be interesting and more accurate to compare both ouds with the same tuning (arabic tuning) so the difference between turkish vs arabic sound can appear.

However, as previously discussed in the forums, an arabic oud built by a turkish maker carries a heavy turkish accent and vice versa.

DavidJE - 6-3-2014 at 04:51 AM

Quote:
Would be interesting and more accurate to compare both ouds with the same tuning (arabic tuning) so the difference between turkish vs arabic sound can appear.


I think the problem with that is that the ouds are built for the specific tunings they currently have, so one of them wouldn't sound "right". I've tried playing the same thing in the same pitches though (just different positions), and it's easy to hear the difference that way. I may try to re-make the video like that in the future.