hans - 10-14-2014 at 02:29 PM
Dear fellow oud players, my teacher likes to tease me with difficult music. He's come up with a persian piece with impossible rhythms and a makam
called shushtari. He is touring and is therefore unable to tell me exactly what this is. Does anyone know what shushtari is like? I have been unable
to find anything else on the internet except someone mentioning it, whereas i am actually even looking for fingersettings, because i can't really
hear where the flattened/sharpened notes are. Anyone who knows more?
Eric Stern Music - 10-14-2014 at 09:01 PM
Here is a youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MthqwdTwQI
I tried googling it in arabic/persian: مقام شوشتري and found this page :
http://www.bayanmusic.ir/BML/bayanmusic/Musiqi/MusiqiyeIraniVaMakat...
It is the third chart down from the top. If you copy the arabic/persian and do an image search you might find more. It just translates as maqam
shushtari
Masel - 10-14-2014 at 10:52 PM
shushtar is basically the persian/azeri version of hijaz. the intonation is different, in persian music the scale is:
D E-b- (half flat) F# G A Bb C D
the melody usually starts from and concentrates around the G, like what is named in turkish music an "ascending-descending" makam. the E-b- is often
used as an "ist", a note you can end phrases on, which gives a feeling of suspense. only when you want to end a whole chapter you would end it on G,
ending on the D normally (not always of course) happens only at the very end.
Masel - 10-14-2014 at 11:14 PM
so actually the D should not be heard too much, as opposed to hijaz. in this point shushtar could be confused with nahawand, but the range of the
maqam and the behaviour are closer to hijaz.
also the frequent stops on the E-b- could give maybe the impression of segah (mustaar actually, same notes as shushtar), but try to remember this is
not segah family this is hijaz!
franck leriche - 10-15-2014 at 09:31 AM
In order to complete Masel tips, Shustari is one the main "gushé" of dastagh é homayun.
It shares some common theory with maqam hijaz, but the mood is really different.
Homayun has an ascending development, so "gushé yé shustari "is coming after the basic of the dastagh has been established.
As said by Masel, the fourth degree is the leading tone.
Sometimes it is also played by itself without starting on homayun.
In my opinion, it might be very difficult to know how to play shustari without knowing homayun.
If we consider homayun on D ( the basin notes are : b c D e koron f# g a bb c)
The most heard note of homayun is E koron( some would say 3/4 tone up from D)
When moving to shustari, the leading tone becomes G, so one may confuse it on a theorical point of view with hijaz, but once again the mood is
completely different.
Here's a great version of dastgâh é homâyun by Taj Esfahani and Hassan Kasaee
The quality of the recording is poor but worth listening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InsE81cou6I
Shustari starts right before 4'30.
hans - 10-20-2014 at 04:08 AM
Thanks very much! And sorry for my late reaction, i was in morocco for a week, mostly without internet 
franck leriche - 10-20-2014 at 11:54 AM
Next time you go to Morocco, send me a message if you come to Essaouira.
You are most welcome to come by, drink tea and play some music...
hans - 10-20-2014 at 12:33 PM
Oh i may do that! We were very enthusiastic about marrakesh and the merakshi ( correct spelling?). We will definitely go back to see other parts. And
i would like to see nasser houari live.
hans - 10-20-2014 at 12:34 PM
But, please, the tea without sugar. My teeth are still aching 
majnuunNavid - 10-21-2014 at 08:56 AM
I will scan some radif notation for you and post it here in the next couple of days. It will really help you get the themes of Shushtari.
franck leriche - 10-21-2014 at 12:20 PM
Wakha sidi Hans atei bla sukar!!!
Yes mister Hans, your tea without suger!!!
The andalousie atlantiques festival will start soon in Essaouira, i'll try to share some recordings, some oud players this year.
hans - 10-21-2014 at 01:01 PM
Navid, that would be wonderful. I have your package with the makam manual, but those are ofcourse the arabic makams 
.
Franck, you are as hospitable as the moroccans (i assume that you are french?)(not that the french are not hospitable, in marrakesh we were taken on a
tour by french friends who live in Casa)
Masel - 10-22-2014 at 03:03 AM
what i wrote before was about the persian shushtar
azeri shushtar has two main parts: shushtar (as i said, similar to hijaz) and terkib, which uses the same scale but focuses on the 5th (A, if shushtar
is on D)
here you can listen to the azeri shushtar performed on kamanche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4GHv0pzC7w
and on tar (there is small nuance when shushtar is played on tar, that is not used on kamanche. see if you can find it )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP8Yld4A76s
Masel - 10-22-2014 at 03:05 AM
and a full performance of shushtar, if you are up for it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BzPGHt4GUo
hans - 10-22-2014 at 03:37 AM
Thanks a lot! No wonder i had difficulties, i think the piece my teacher gave me is not in shushtari 
Masel - 10-22-2014 at 04:01 AM
what piece is it? do you have notes/recording?
hans - 10-22-2014 at 11:43 AM
Aye, shame on me, seems i heard it wrong. The flattened and sharpened notes still confuse my hearing. The piece is moghaddame shahram nazeri
Masel - 10-22-2014 at 02:20 PM
not sure what you mean... moghadame means "introduction", it is probably the first piece on the album. shaharam nazeri is a singer. do you have link?
hans - 10-23-2014 at 08:23 AM
Few, it took some time before i knew how to make this file smaller than 500kb
Masel - 10-23-2014 at 10:41 AM
well never question your teacher, but to me this sound more like isfahan not shushtari. isfahan is the equivalent of nahawand, so it is the fourth
degree above shushtar/hijaz. there is also some rast mixed in there, not sure how to call this accroding to persian theory. i'd say it is isfahan with
a "modern" touch.
nice piece, do you have the names of the other tracks on the record?
franck leriche - 10-24-2014 at 05:16 AM
Definitely Esfahan, the modulation is to Gushé-yé Oshaq.
One can call it Rast, but persian Rast is different.
Masel - 10-24-2014 at 06:56 AM
ah yes oshaq! that's why i was reluctant to say rast, as you said frank.
Masel - 10-24-2014 at 08:18 AM
actually i started asking myself about oshaq and could not find it in isfahan nor homayun in mirza abdolla's radif.
which radif do you know frank?
hans - 10-24-2014 at 11:57 AM
Hmmmm, interesting, wonder what my teacher has to say 
majnuunNavid - 10-24-2014 at 09:00 PM
You guys really know your Persian music! 
One way to tell that it is definitely NOT Shushtari is that it doesn't pause on the 2nd quarter flat degree, which is E quarter flat if in D.
Shushtari really hits that home in most cases, and usually resolves on D
D Eqb F# G A Bb C D
Here is the gushe of shushtari from the Radif of Mirza Abdullah. Sorry it's a jpeg, I don't have a scanner, nor do I have easy access to one right
now. Also, take note that this Shushtari is transposed to G.
G Aqb B C D Eb F G
Mirza Abdullah's Radif doesn't have Oshaq in Isfahan or homayoun, but it might be in the Radif of his brother Mirza Hossein Gholi? I don't know
because I only studied Mirza Abdullah's Radif.
But definitely it in today's performance of Isfahan, Oshaq is used as an ascending melody in the exact same way that Maqam Hijaz uses an ascending
jins Rast on the way up sometimes. This is a route to modulate into Shur/Abu Atta/Afshari from Isfahan.
franck leriche - 10-25-2014 at 01:24 AM
I 've been studying vocal radif with Dr Hossein Omoumi, he was a student of Mahmud Karimi, Hassan Kassa'ee.
He knew a lot of A.Saba too.
I was very lucky to perform with him too, so i learned a lot about persian music in a more free way.
I studied M.Abdollah radif with Dariush Tala'i too.