Mike's Oud Forums

Maurice Shahata oud- Tempteing Price

Almelaifi - 11-16-2014 at 09:46 PM

Hi,

Where is your location?

Do you have a sound file?

And how good is the action? A pic is preferred..

Thanx :)

zakiya_alali - 11-19-2014 at 08:35 AM

This oud is now sold outside this useless website.

Greg - 11-19-2014 at 08:42 AM

You have been on this "useless website" for six years and you have advertised many ouds here over the years.
I am saddened that you now feel it necessary to be so unpleasant.

Greg

Microber - 11-19-2014 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Greg  
You have been on this "useless website" for six years and you have advertised many ouds here over the years.
I am saddened that you now feel it necessary to be so unpleasant.

Greg


+1 :(
Robert

zakiya_alali - 11-19-2014 at 10:08 AM

Indeed Greg
Because all what I'm getting people asking stupid and silly questions and at the end they just disappear, totally waist of time. And I'm not talking just about me there are many other members who are facing the same issue and I'm sure you know them.

Alfaraby - 11-19-2014 at 03:18 PM

I have been holding this for a while and should have stayed away but now that it erupted, I have to say that this forum should not become a market for ouds, not used nor even new. We might have a side or sub-forum for 2nd hand and new ouds, but away from this ring/range. It's not wrong at all to have a place where one may find a reasonable oud and to exchange thoughts about what's being offered worldwide. There might be also a summery of links to sell/buy ouds ads on ebay, amazon, dx.com, alibaba, aliexpress or wherever or whatever sites where people use to offer their merchandise for sale.
In our local market there's a site called secondhand where there's a section for musical instruments, and ouds among others.

It's Mike's forum, so he's entitled to do whatever he likes, but this ad banner (above) -excuse me- causes me stomach ache, for it degrades in my eyes this valuable serious forum. Our forum has gained its reputation due to fellow members' none-profit hard work. They spent hundreds if not thousands of hours of collective effort to built what it is now known as the leading forum in oud-world, while others are here just in order to try to make some extra pennies.

I hate what I wrote but it's much easier than the ache ...

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Jody Stecher - 11-19-2014 at 04:02 PM

I see your point, Alfaraby. As first I also found the advertising at the top of the page to be disturbing. I did get used to it however. As for a side-forum for selling, it already exists. We are now having a conversation in "Oud Market Place Forum" in the sub-section "Buy & Sell Ouds". While it is easier to view "Today's Posts" all at once, the option exists to view each sub-forum separately.

I would like to say that thanks to this forum, I have both bought and sold a few ouds (3 in and 3 out over the last few years) and through these transactions have made friends and formed valued relationships with both buyers and sellers, with most interactions taking place, appropriately, first in U2U, then in personal email, and sometimes, best of all, face to face. Sure, I did encounter some unseemly and rude opinions about oud value here on the forum but this was worth enduring, as my musical and personal life has been enriched by exchanging recordings and stories and good will with both buyers and sellers. My pockets, however, have not been enriched, as I sold the ouds at cost. So I have benefited in non-material ways from the existence of the "Oud Market" sub-forum.

SamirCanada - 11-19-2014 at 05:09 PM

I agree with you AlFaraby, people who only here to sell ouds... they are the useless ones. You arent providing to the life of the forum you have no right to call it useless.

Zakiya_alali... the site is far from useless.

Greg - 11-19-2014 at 06:10 PM

Thanks for your input, Robert, Alfaraby, Jody and Samir.
I totally agree with your sentiments, other than about the banner ad.
Mike has always covered all the costs associated with keeping these forums alive and he does so without financial gain. Whilst I fully understand your feelings about the banner ad for Mo's ouds, I was pleased when Mike added it. At least that may help him defray some of the considerable costs and he will not be forced to sell the site off to someone with nothing other than commercial gain in mind.
I have moderated these forums and checked-out every new poster for several years. I have done this from locations all over the world (right now I am sitting in bed at 1:52am in London). I have never made a cent from these forums and I never want to. But my contribution is small when compared to the contributions made by many members who bring great knowledge and thought to expanding the knowledge of us all in regard to this wonderful instrument.

So it irks me when people who contribute nothing to the life of the forums use them only as a site to place free classified advertising. But we know that is a fact of life and we all have to live with it. It is hoped, however, that those people will recognize their position and have the grace and good manners to vent their spleens elsewhere.

Hey Alfaraby, it works .... the ache has gone :rolleyes:

G'night.

Greg

Brian Prunka - 11-19-2014 at 06:53 PM

Yes, Mike actually has to pay money to run the site, and he has gone to some effort to provide an option for people to buy decent ouds at reasonable prices. Furthermore, he has never done anything to discourage or restrict people from selling other ouds on this forum, even in cases like this one where Zakiya is directly competing with him. No one likes advertising, but the banner doesn't bother me . . . maybe some of the complainers should volunteer to pay Mike's costs?

Most other forums like this will do one or more of the following:

• Restrict selling to members who have belonged for a period of time (usually 6 months to a year) and contributed to the general forums (not just selling ouds).
• Restrict selling to members who "donate" to support the costs of running the site

Yet Mike very generously lets anyone post ouds for sale even when they contribute little or nothing else to the forum.

Complaining is bad form and detracts from the community we have here.

zakiya_alali - 11-19-2014 at 08:46 PM

I'm pointing at Buy & Sell Ouds Forum and I do apologies if I misinterpret what I have said.
This website is indeed very rich in terms of sources and has many respectable members as all of you above.
It’s just kind of frustrating for us when we advertise and we face members who are taking it as a joke.
It’s true we are making or trying to make profit but it’s not something huge where we can quite our daily jobs or we can buy fancy cars or houses it is something very symbolic.
We are on the other hand promoting for oud makers and their ouds through this website and also helping others to purchase ouds that they have always wanted in a fast and efficient way which I'm sure is valuable.

Thanks.

zakiya_alali - 11-20-2014 at 04:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lute  
Quote: Originally posted by Almelaifi  
Hi,

Where is your location?

Do you have a sound file?

And how good is the action? A pic is preferred..

Thanx :)



Constrictive criticism.

Zakiya_alali, I have found the above questions are very valid and useful for buying oud!

It is not enough just to put an oud for sale without the essential information!

I strongly disagree with you on your selling way at this point. I advice you to put many details about the oud when selling if you want to avoid provoking many questions from a perspective buyer! You offer oud for sale and you do not want buyers to ask for more details, I think this is completely out of order!

Lute


I have already replied by u2u with required details

Mike - 11-20-2014 at 07:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
I have to say that this forum should not become a market for ouds, not used nor even new.


http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15231#pid10...

If you scroll down about halfway, we find in bold letters the words, "all ouds are for sale".
Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
It's Mike's forum, so he's entitled to do whatever he likes, but this ad banner (above) -excuse me- causes me stomach ache, for it degrades in my eyes this valuable serious forum.


If you find the banner gives you a stomach ache, I suggest you don't look at it or buy a bottle of Pepto-Bismol.
Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
I hate what I wrote but it's much easier than the ache ...


I am disappointed in what you wrote.

journeyman - 11-20-2014 at 05:08 PM

Mike, I am a member of a fly rod forum and they have a strict policy regarding the for sale section. It states that every item listed for sale must have a price listed with it. I'm not sure why, but it seems to offer some measure of clarity to the posting. Negotiations are conducted via PM, email or phone, and are strictly between the buyer and seller. Commercial sellers have a separate heading for their listings. Just thought I'd mention it as it seems to work very well. -Roy

hama - 11-21-2014 at 08:29 AM

some of us use this site for exchanging information , I personally found it very useful and informative so far .
other people like Zakiya uses the site purely for selling ouds and making profit , when doesn't go his way , he calls it useless.
what was his last post/contribution to the site other than selling ouds ??
disagree with him totally

Mike - 11-21-2014 at 08:37 AM

Hey Roy,

Interesting concept and thanks for the suggestion, but who has the time to monitor and enforce this? I hardly visit the forums anymore as it is. Lots of life changes from 12 years ago to today. Anyway, I think the forums are a great resource for people looking for ouds and tens and tens of people have benefitted from being able to take advantage of them as is. I am perfectly ok with this. Some even have raised their prices to ridiculous amounts, one guy after making maybe 15 ouds. I'm talking Nahat and Manol in excellent condition type pricing. I say more power to them and good luck.

Take care,
Mike

journeyman - 11-21-2014 at 10:10 AM

Ah yes Mike, I forgot about the issue of moderating the site. Well, it seems that the ones who don't really contribute anything in a positive way eventually move on anyway, so it's all a process in the life of the forums. Its still a great resource and one that I have personally benefited from a great deal. -Roy

zakiya_alali - 11-21-2014 at 12:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by hama  
some of us use this site for exchanging information , I personally found it very useful and informative so far .
other people like Zakiya uses the site purely for selling ouds and making profit , when doesn't go his way , he calls it useless.
what was his last post/contribution to the site other than selling ouds ??
disagree with him totally


I'm always contributing in this website my dear here are few of them far from buy n sell thread

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15290#pid10...

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15133#pid10...

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15084#pid10...

zakiya_alali - 11-21-2014 at 12:34 PM


other people like Zakiya uses the site purely for selling ouds and making profit , when doesn't go his way , he calls it useless.

I'm pointing at Buy & Sell Ouds Forum and I do apologies if I misinterpret what I have said.
This website is indeed very rich in terms of sources and has many respectable members as all of you above.

Jason - 11-21-2014 at 09:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by journeyman  
Mike, I am a member of a fly rod forum and they have a strict policy regarding the for sale section. It states that every item listed for sale must have a price listed with it. I'm not sure why, but it seems to offer some measure of clarity to the posting. Negotiations are conducted via PM, email or phone, and are strictly between the buyer and seller. Commercial sellers have a separate heading for their listings. Just thought I'd mention it as it seems to work very well. -Roy


That has been brought up a number of times over the years but there has never been a consensus on it due to, in my opinion, cultural differences. You'll notice a lot of guys who sell here won't post the price in public. That is because the price they ask varies depending on who is inquiring and they are usually expecting to haggle quite a bit.

That said, I totally agree with you. I usually check the forums at least once a week, I'd be glad to help monitor the marketplace if such a rule were put in place.

danieletarab - 11-23-2014 at 06:09 PM

Useless website!?!?!?!?!?!??? Mike's oud is not only an EXTREMELY useful website, but it's also one of the most beautiful things I have came across in my life! Seriously! I have been talking of this FORUM to all my friends, even though they don't play oud, telling them how beautiful, helpful, magic and wonderful this community is.
For what concerns "Buy and sell"... Many sellers (either private or professional) think that people should buy their products just because they put them on sale. Buying an oud without having the chanche to give it a try is very very very difficult! You need to make lots of questions; you have to decide among many offerts; you often get confused and feel very frustrated because you're going to spend your very precious money to buy something you don't really know. Sellers should be MUCH MUCH MORE patient with poor buyers. This topyc really upsets me. Mike, Greg and all the administrators: I really thank you for what you have been doing and you still do for me\ I feel very proud and happy to be part of this wonderful community. Mike for president!!! :)

jack - 11-23-2014 at 06:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by danieletarab  
it's also one of the most beautiful things I have came across in my life!


Indeed, and well said.