Mike's Oud Forums

GREAT Sounding Greek/Syrian Oud

Alfaraby - 11-29-2014 at 02:19 PM

σολο ? عود
Is it Greek ?
This what I call a rich full-fat sound !
Do you know anything about this oud ?

Each time I undergo an intensive, concentrated aggressive oud-rehab treatment, comes an OUD like this and quickly knocks me off.
I'm heading to the port :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbvAHCMO30

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

SamirCanada - 11-29-2014 at 04:37 PM

Maybe Spyros can tell us, this old man playing is nikos saragoudas who is his teacher.

Mehran - 11-29-2014 at 04:49 PM

Speaking of unrecognisable greek ouds, there is this beauty which has always caught the attention of my eyes and ears!

Jody Stecher - 11-29-2014 at 05:53 PM

And KP plays oud herself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhToqy69s_w

then there's *this* mystery oud. he starts to play at 6:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7G4VttkZjM

see images below:

[img][/img]

[file]33503[/file] [file]33505[/file]

spyrosc - 11-29-2014 at 09:56 PM

According to the greek caption this oud is a Syrian 1910 (no known maker) repaired/serviced by Dimitri Rapakoussios (the well known young Greek luthier). The oud came to Greece from Egypt, by a Greek who bought it originally in Smyrna from a Turk. (ouds travel a lot, somebody should write the story of these ouds).




Alfaraby - 11-30-2014 at 07:46 AM

This is a close-up of the same oud:
http://youtu.be/JLkwR7VgBes
My friend Karim Othman-Hassan, who's an expert in antique ouds, thinks it might be Shukri Almolqi's oud !
I tend to believe it's not. It's more Manol than Syrian.

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

spyrosc - 11-30-2014 at 08:00 AM

With all due respect to Alfaraby's undoubted expertise, there are questions. The pickguard is not Manol and the shamsiya is not Manol. The Shamsiya reminds Syrian / Lebanese. And the majority of Manols have 3 soundholes.

Alfaraby - 11-30-2014 at 01:22 PM

Spyros dear,
I have declared more than once that I have no idea about Manol's ouds, since there are no Manols around here. I just said "more Manol than Syrian" and I meant my friend's guess it might be Molqi's oud.
Anyhow, it's a great oud which I thought it's Greek, while you taught me it is not.
Could anybody contact the owner and/or check this oud ?
Thank you

Mehran dear, I'd dare and guess that the "beauty" might be Michel Khawwam's oud from Aleppo.
Here are two of mine which look like your "beauty". It is a real beauty indeed.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14474#pid98...

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

spyrosc - 11-30-2014 at 02:51 PM

Dear Alfaraby, don't be humble. You are a renowned expert and I certainly I'm not.

But the Shamsiya is in Arabic and I'm trying to read it. The bottom word ends in Lam so it might not be Almolqi. I know I have seen the pattern before but of course many ouds from Al Sham have similar patterns. The fact that it has only a Shamsiya and no Qamariyas may indicate a pretty old age.

It would be interesting as you say to see if Dimitris in Athens remembers when he repaired it if he saw the label.

Our other Spyro (Mesogeia) was a pupil of Saragoudas (the old man who plays it and one of the owners of the oud) and he might approach him easier.

bulerias1981 - 11-30-2014 at 08:37 PM

Wheres Mav when we need him!?!?

ALAMI - 12-1-2014 at 06:32 AM

A French proverb says: "comparaison n'est pas raison" so there is no proof here, just a "family" look, those ouds may be cousins: the single hole, the beard, the shape, the inlays etc..., the second was seriously restored so we don't know how it looked before restoration (unless Dimitris took photos)
The old one is a 1892 made by (the totally mysterious) Arja Brothers in Tripoli Lebanon.
I believe too that the mysterious oud is probably Syrian/Lebanese

bulerias1981 - 12-1-2014 at 07:44 AM

similiar, but not the same. Alami, who owns the Al Arja Brothers oud?

ALAMI - 12-1-2014 at 09:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981  
similiar, but not the same. Alami, who owns the Al Arja Brothers oud?


Agree, that's why am calling them cousins, may be to the area North of Tripoli, Homs or Aleppo

I am the lucky owner of the Arja, a real gem.



mavrothis - 12-1-2014 at 10:10 AM

Hi guys,

Wow, what a gorgeous tone and projection in this oud.

About the oud's maker, I can't add any more than Spyros already mentioned, other than I don't think this looks like something by Venios (Manol). Dimitris Rapakousios knows Venios (Manol) ouds very well, and he wouldn't miss his handiwork on an instrument he restored.

Most likely the label will reveal everything. Anyone tried to contact the owner via youtube?

Alami your Arja looks beautiful.

Luttgutt - 12-1-2014 at 12:45 PM

Totally agree With ALAMI!

And there is no doubt that the finger Board is a restoration (not original)..

And I can swear that i have seen this pick guard before..

The only thing that is bothering me is the pegbox. If it is original, this oud cannot be lebanese or syrian..

P.s. ALAMI.. miss you man!! :)

suz_i_dil - 12-4-2014 at 10:28 AM



Hello

i get in touch with the owner via youtube.
here is the story of the oud he told me about and it's actual state:

" The constructor of this oud is a mystery for me. I have upload here a video with this oud, played by my teacher Nikos Saragoudas, who sold me the oud (I am a little tall and the teacher said me: "this oud is constructed for you!", because it's a big one). He told me that it's a syrian oud and he has bought it by a greek player name "Babalios", who came from Smyrna. Babalios had told to my teacher that when he lived in Smyrna (it is in Minor Asia-Turkey), one night he was listening from the upper floor a Turkish playing this oud. He find the sound amazing and told immediately to the Turkish player "Do you sell it?" He gave a certain amount of money and got it. Then Babalios came to Greece and he was going to see my teacher many times, holding this oud. My teacher loved the oud and wanted to buy it. Babalios sold him the oud, since my teacher Nikos Saragoudas is considered an oud legend in Greece (he had visited Turkey and Egypt in the past for many times, seeing Farid El Atrash and other great players, but he considers the Syrian Halepi as the "source" of the oud, that is what he always tells me).When I bought this oud, it had several problems. I did not know any special oud constructor and a friend that played bouzouki knew a bouzouki constructor from Peiraeus (near Athens) and I gave the oud to him for repairing. He repaired it, but he placed the chords with a bouzouki-like position (the chords were almost parallels). So I gave again the oud for repair to Dimitri Rapakousios, who is among the best oud constructors. Dimitri told me that this oud has been made about 1910! I didn't know that it was so old. It's a syrian oud and it has an arabic inscription inside, but, as Dimitri told me, the oud maker is not well known. Now the brace, where the chords are tied, has broken and I gave it for repair to another know greek constructor, Petros Zaranis. He told me that the brace was too loose and even if he repair it with a special glue, it will break again. So I proposed him to tie the chords not in the brace, but at the edge of the oud, like the iraqi ones. He agreed and now i am waiting for the repair (it will take some time, in 2015 I suppose...) "


Our fellow oudist told me I can share the whole story with the forum. I give him my point of view on this repair attended, and I think you will have also many reactions about.

After he get back the oud, we should get some more informations about, like a label or rosette picture

Our fellow friend tried to subscribe to mikeoud's but seems there are problems for new memberships, so I give him advice to get directly in touch with Mike, webmaster

All the best

Alfaraby - 12-4-2014 at 11:04 AM

What a Via Dolorosa this unfortunate oud has known ! The crossification shall be for sure this last planned restoration Iraqi style. OMG ! Pleas not. Anyone who can contact Mr. Petros Zaranis is asked to tell him not to slaughter this masterpiece.
Marouan dear, please ask the owner to stop this massacre before it's too late.
Thank you

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

suz_i_dil - 12-4-2014 at 11:10 AM

Jameel dear..of course I told him so, but with less eloquence of yours, which I'm missing in english !
I send him an email with all elements to explain the disaster it would turn.
Truely yours

Alfaraby - 12-4-2014 at 11:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher  
There's this mystery oud ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7G4VttkZjM

It reminds me of Michel Khawwam's (Aleppo, 1941) here :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=98388&aid=29...
Does it not ?
Thank you

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Jody Stecher - 12-4-2014 at 01:54 PM

I'm thinking that the one in the video is even more flat at the bottom of the "almond" shape of the soundboard. But maybe not.

suz_i_dil - 12-5-2014 at 01:39 AM

I had an email from the owner: our elderly patient is safe and will benefit if a fix bridge prothesis.!
More to follow when we'll get pictures helping to know the maker
Regards

News for the oud

nikosthe - 2-17-2015 at 07:26 PM

Dear oud friends from all over the world, greetings from Greece! I am so glad to beeing able, finally, to communicate with you. My name is Nikos and I am the owner of the syrian oud you are talking about. I had writing to Marouan (suz_i_dil) the story of the oud and my intention to change the bridge, which was unstuck. That was good, since, fortunately, I read your comments about my plans and decided not to implement them. So I told the craftsman to stuck the bridge only and restore the oud to its previous situation. He finally did a good job, since he created a layer of shavings (if I understood him well) to cover the many puddles of the wood, so the surface became smooth and the bridge seems to be well stuck now. The sound of the oud is the same you hear in the video, nothing has changed (well, I am not so enthusiast as you for this sound, it may be unique, it's not bad for sure but I am used to it, since I hear it playing this oud for many years and cannot appreciate it as you do).

The reason I am writing now is because you asked for more photos and especially for inside photos, to read the arab inscription into the instrument. Now that the patient is healthy, as Marouan said, and I am healthy too (and not... assassined by mike's oud forum members for oud crucifixion! :D), I can present the instrument more thoroughly! So I took photos with my mobile phone and I put the phone near the rosette, to take photos from the inscription. I believe that it can be read clearly from anyone native arab speaker. So, here are the photos. I am waiting news for the experts, to discover more about this instrument, how old is it and maybe the constructor.


Alfaraby - 2-17-2015 at 11:40 PM

GREAT !
It's a surprise ! Not Greek, but Syrian.
The label (and the rosette) says:

Work of Khaleel Ma'atouq, Damascus, Syria
25 November, 1910
Number 245

Unfortunately, I can't say I have heard his name before !

My contacts in Damascus said they've seen 2-3 oud of his, during the last 25 years. They were good, They'd say, but nothing special.
This reminded me of Mohammad Abdel Wahab when asked about a new singer. He used to say: he's good, but not important :)
Is this the case here ? I don't know !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

nikosthe - 2-18-2015 at 04:34 AM

Thanks for the information! So this oud is definitely old, a 1910 construction, from the Syrian constructor Khaleel Ma'atouq and has a great sound, according to you. I didn't know I had such an instrument. But, to be honest, I prefer the sound of the new ouds, iraqi or Abadi's ones. Maybe you, guys, you have played much this sound and you appreciate this old instrument, me, that I have played much this old sound, I would like more something new...

SamirCanada - 2-18-2015 at 07:07 AM

I am sure you could trade it with Abadi himself :)

suz_i_dil - 2-18-2015 at 01:38 PM

who knows Nikos: try to get in touch with Abadi, you may have a nice surprise :)
I never heard of this maker... Jamil, we still have 244 others previous models to seek for :)
It's really nice to see the restauration turn fine. This oud is a beauty, well preserved, and seems to sound great.
Enjoy it in good health Nikos

Alfaraby - 2-19-2015 at 02:34 AM

I have edited the topic and my last post.
Nikos: pls. contact me via my e-mail.
Thank you

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

nikosthe - 2-19-2015 at 09:38 AM

If anyone has on offer for this oud (money or trade), send me a PM (personal message, or U2U, as it is called here). If it is for oud trade, I am interested on iraqi or Abadi's style ones. Thank you.

ameer - 2-19-2015 at 07:25 PM

Najib Shaheen tells me that he had a 1908 Ma'touq but ultimately sold it. Its construction and sound weren't as good as the Nahats or Mulqis that he had seen. Of course we will need to find more ouds to judge the general sound and craftsmanship of this maker.