Mike's Oud Forums

Please help an absolute beginner

monitort - 5-28-2015 at 09:19 PM

Hello everyone.

I have been listening to oud recordings for many years, but I've never had the chance to buy an actual oud.

Now one has showed up on the second-hand market, and since I am a complete beginner, I was hoping you might please help me find out more about it. The owner says she doesn't play it and that she doesn't know much about it.

There are only two pictures available:
http://olx.ro/oferta/vand-cobza-ID2qjCN.html#4adb5c3948

Is this a Turkish or an Arabic oud? Does it look like a really cheap instrument to you? What other information should I ask for? The seller is in another city.

Thank you very much.

Victor



Greg - 5-28-2015 at 09:31 PM

Hello Victor,

Welcome to the forums.
This is a Turkish instrument. I do not know the maker, but it looks very similar to instruments made by the late Haluk Eraydin. It is probably not one of his, as he used a different bridge design and gloss finish on his bowls. But if the 600 LEI is Romanian currency, it is priced now at a similar price to what you would have expected to pay some years ago for a student model from someone like Haluk.
It does not look like it has been played much, if at all. At around US$150, it is probably a safe investment. You could ask the seller to measure the height of the strings above the neck, where it joins the bowl and put that information on the forums for some expert opinion.

Good luck,

Greg

monitort - 5-29-2015 at 02:35 AM

Dear Greg, thank you very much for your answer.

Here is a bit more information from the seller:

1. Apparently there is no label inside.
2. The distance between the strings and the neck where the neck joins the bowl is not more than 2 mm.
3. The bowl shows wear (a scratch?) apparently from the belt of the previous owner (please see the pictures below).
4. Part of a tuning peg is broken off, but only from the part one holds and turns. (can I use a violin peg instead?)

Here are more pictures:















I am quite excited that I could be the proud owner of an oud. I've always wanted to try it, especially since it is a fretless instrument. The price is $150. Considering all the above, would you give me the go ahead?

Thank you.

Victor

Greg - 5-29-2015 at 05:25 AM

Victor,

2 mm is quite low, so that's a good sign (providing the neck is true so that you don't get buzzing).

The broken peg indicates that either the pegs are of very poor quality or they have not been fitted properly (perhaps both). Now that I have seen a close-up photo of the pegs, I can say that this is definitely not a Haluk oud. Haluk used much better quality rosewood or ebony pegs. It is important to have good quality tuning pegs that have been fitted properly. You will soon lose interest in the instrument if tuning becomes a chore because the pegs are not fitted correctly and are hard to turn and do not hold tune. You can see sets of quality pegs here http://www.oudstrings.com/index.php?route=product/category&path...
If you do not have access to an oud luthier, it may be best to employ a violin maker to replace your broken peg (or all of them), as he or she will have the tools to ensure a correct fit. The holes must be reamed to have the same taper as the pegs. The "scratch" looks a little like a dent to me. I would be asking for a close up photo of that.

Three final comments:
1/ If you play another stringed instrument, and if it is possible, it would be best for you to see this instrument yourself before committing to purchase. If you are not already a musician, perhaps you could get one to look at it for you.
2/ US$150 is a very low price for an oud and this looks okay for the price. (Unlike Arabic "tourist" ouds, Turkish "tourist" ouds are generally playable, so even if this turns out to be a tourist oud, all will not be lost.)
3/ Before deciding, wait to see what other forum members think. There are many talented people on these forums and I'm sure some will offer you better advice than I.

Regards,

Greg

monitort - 5-30-2015 at 01:58 PM

Many thanks for you help. I have decided not to buy the oud. Since I can't get this instrument off my mind now, I will look for a decent one when I go to Istanbul. Or I will look online for an oud maker in Europe. Otherwise, shipping + custom duties from outside the EU will ruin me :)

If you don't mind, I have two more (unrelated) questions. Should I open separate topics for them?

1. First, I play classical guitar and quality instruments are several thousand euros. A good concert guitar starts at around 3000 euros. If you want double tops or very famous makers, that will add up to much more. Regarding the oud, I've been reading the forum and other sites and ouds seem to be much cheaper than guitars. Why is that? Or am I mistaken?
2. I am around 6.10 feet tall and I want to play the oud in the future. Do I need to order a custom instrument because my arms are longer than other people's?

Thank you again. This forum seems like a very friendly place.

Victor

Luttgutt - 5-30-2015 at 02:20 PM

Welcome to the Forum Victor!

1- The oud is usually made in countries With low salaries compaired to europ or the states.. So it is only Natural that oud is cheaper than guitar.

2- You can find ouds in different sizes. The biggest arabic ouds should be big enough for you. But I can see no reason why you cannot play a small oud. After all People play Ukulele :)

Jody Stecher - 5-30-2015 at 02:38 PM

I think your long arms can only be an advantage. More than a few oud players with shorter arms have had right shoulder injuries caused by playing ouds with bowls that are too deep and wide for their bodies. I don't think that will happen to you at all. Several Turkish luthiers make ouds with wide and deep bowls. The overall pattern appears smaller than typical Arabic ouds but when the dimensions are measured the truth is known. It is also known in the arms, necks, and shoulders of smaller people. That said, I can think of no reason that an oud of any size, including small size, should cause you any problems.

There are several good oud makers in Europe. You can find some on this forum.
Quote: Originally posted by monitort  
Many thanks for you help. I have decided not to buy the oud. Since I can't get this instrument off my mind now, I will look for a decent one when I go to Istanbul. Or I will look online for an oud maker in Europe. Otherwise, shipping + custom duties from outside the EU will ruin me :)

If you don't mind, I have two more (unrelated) questions. Should I open separate topics for them?

1. First, I play classical guitar and quality instruments are several thousand euros. A good concert guitar starts at around 3000 euros. If you want double tops or very famous makers, that will add up to much more. Regarding the oud, I've been reading the forum and other sites and ouds seem to be much cheaper than guitars. Why is that? Or am I mistaken?
2. I am around 6.10 feet tall and I want to play the oud in the future. Do I need to order a custom instrument because my arms are longer than other people's?

Thank you again. This forum seems like a very friendly place.

Victor

whisperoftheoud - 5-31-2015 at 02:55 AM

Hello,

I suggest you one of my friend web site he is selling student ouds with very good quality. His web site : http://www.cheapoud.com

Thanks ,

Yildirim Palabiyik
Oud Maker
Quote: Originally posted by monitort  
Hello everyone.

I have been listening to oud recordings for many years, but I've never had the chance to buy an actual oud.

Now one has showed up on the second-hand market, and since I am a complete beginner, I was hoping you might please help me find out more about it. The owner says she doesn't play it and that she doesn't know much about it.

There are only two pictures available:
http://olx.ro/oferta/vand-cobza-ID2qjCN.html#4adb5c3948

Is this a Turkish or an Arabic oud? Does it look like a really cheap instrument to you? What other information should I ask for? The seller is in another city.

Thank you very much.

Victor



Brian Prunka - 5-31-2015 at 05:13 AM

It sounds like you are accustomed to playing good quality instruments. I would recommend you buy a more expensive oud from a maker with a good reputation. If you are looking at Turkish ouds, that would be Faruk Turunz, Ramazan Calay, Yildirim Palabiyik . . . there are several others that folks who know more will chime in here.

First of all, it will be more enjoyable for you to learn on a good instrument, and you will be more likely to stick with it (and you won't have to upgrade if you do).

Secondly, should you somehow decide that oud isn't for you, an instrument from a respected maker will hold its value better or possibly even go up in value.

Overall, good ouds are less expensive than expensive guitars (cheaper cost of living where they are mostly made), but beginner ouds are more expensive and worse quality than beginner guitars (lack of efficient industrialized mass production).