Mike's Oud Forums

Question about different tuning

AhmedT - 3-24-2016 at 07:37 AM

Hey,
I have been learning on my own on and off for about 2 years now. When I first started my teacher taught me on an F aa dd gg cc ff tuning. I stopped taking lessons for a while and noticed that most people on the web use a C ff/gg aa dd gg cc tuning. I switched to that and began to use the i3zif.com online courses which uses the same C gg aa dd gg cc tuning.

When I bought my second oud from Egypt the guys at the store didn't seem to know the C gg aa dd gg cc tuning! My understanding is that traditional arabic ouds were 5 strings tuned gg aa dd gg cc. putting a lower C on top produces the same tuning (as traditional arabic) with an extra bass string. The F/G aa dd gg cc ff tuning is exactly as traditional but a high ff at the bottom.

To cut a long story short, I started lessons again with an outstanding Iraqi teacher who was also baffled at my C gg aa dd gg cc tuning and asked me to switch to F/G aa dd gg cc ff!

Can someone explain to me the roots of these tunings and why my teacher (and the shop guys in Egypt) didn't even recognize the C gg aa dd gg cc although it seems to be aplenty online and also used by Tarek Elgenddy of i3zif. I'm confused.

What do they teach (for example) at the House of Oud in Egypt? (if anyone knows).

Jody Stecher - 3-24-2016 at 08:55 AM

It seems to me that you are not very confused, and that your understanding is very good! One suggestion, to make yourself understood clearly is to not mix "high and low"to describe tuning with "high and low" to describe nearness to sky and earth. The ff in musical terms is at the "top" and the low C is at "bottom". The reason that this matters is that some players in the Iraqi school actually place their lowest tuned string closest to the ground, closest to the floor. This was the practice in old days in Turkey as well. So if you stick to high meaning high pitch and low meaning low pitch you will be understood more easily. Just my opinion.

I cannot speculate as to why those you have dealt with are ignorant of standard tuning. All they have to do is watch any Farid Al Attrache youtube video and the tuning is clearly seen.

AhmedT - 3-25-2016 at 06:15 AM

Thanks Jody. I've always suffered from the top/bottom problem because sometimes I want to refer to tuning and sometimes refer to up/down :-). Anyway.

I'm assuming Farid used a 5 string oud. If that is correct then standard would mean G/F aa dd gg cc. My confusion is about the 6th string, which to my understanding is a modern thing (1930s maybe?). When we say standard, Is the 6th string a low tuned/ top placed (C2) producing an old standard (g/f aa dd gg cc) + a low C2 at the top of the oud? or is it a high tuned / bottom placed (ff6) producing standard (g/f aa dd gg cc) + a high ff6 at the bottom of the oud?

Another question. When one buys an oud from say Maurice. Whats the tuning it comes with from the shop?

Jody Stecher - 3-25-2016 at 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AhmedT  
Thanks Jody. I've always suffered from the top/bottom problem because sometimes I want to refer to tuning and sometimes refer to up/down :-). Anyway.

I'm assuming Farid used a 5 string oud. If that is correct then standard would mean G/F aa dd gg cc. My confusion is about the 6th string, which to my understanding is a modern thing (1930s maybe?). When we say standard, Is the 6th string a low tuned/ top placed (C2) producing an old standard (g/f aa dd gg cc) + a low C2 at the top of the oud? or is it a high tuned / bottom placed (ff6) producing standard (g/f aa dd gg cc) + a high ff6 at the bottom of the oud?

Another question. When one buys an oud from say Maurice. Whats the tuning it comes with from the shop?


OK . nomenclature first : When you buy a set of strings for any instrument the thinnest string is called "the first". It says it that way on the package. On a five course oud the fifth string is the thickest and is tuned the lowest.

Second point: Farid often tuned lower than "standard" so the tuning I will mention below is relative.

third point: the first string or double course is placed closest to the player's feet. The fifth course is closest to the player's head. If an oud has a sixth course that string or course is even closer to the head of the player.

On every video and audio recording of Farid I have heard the tuning is FF AA dd gg cc. Capital letters indicate lower octave. Some of the photos I have seen of him with an oud show 12 pegs. But I have never heard him play anything lower than FF. If he sometimes played a six course oud he apparently did not play that course. If he had that course he would have probably tuned it to C lower than his fifth course.

Modern 6 course classical tuning is (low to high, which is to say sixth through first):

C FF AA dd gg cc

yes there is the option to tune the sixth course to D and to tune to fifth course to EE or GG.


As for tunings on new ouds, generally they do not arrive in tune when shipped. When bought at a shop directly they are generally in the tuning that the previous player used (within the restrictions imposed by the diameters of the strings).

Brian Prunka - 3-25-2016 at 10:59 AM

Riad al Sounbati used the low 6th tuning, predating Farid. The high f'f' course was also used sometimes in old recordings, but its primary proponent was Munir Bashir.

Arabic music is very tied to the octave ranges of the instruments. Adding a low string to reinforce the octave below doesn't musically impact the melodic range, while adding a high string entirely changes the musical focus of the instrument. The effect of the high f' is to transpose the register of the instrument upwards (compared to the 5 course old tuning), while adding the low C means you play exactly like the old 5-course tuning, you just have some options to drone or reinforce the low notes.

Regarding a new oud: I think your question was about what the strings from the shop are made to be tuned to. The best thing is to ask the seller what the strings are, or you can make an educated guess by measuring the strings. It's safer to tune low if you don't know. One should generally expect to switch the strings that the oud comes with when purchasing a budget instrument.

AhmedT - 3-29-2016 at 07:51 AM

Thanks Brian. It makes sense to me now. One thing I have noticed is that my oud is much more "stable" given the higher string tension of the high ff course setup. I used to get much more sympathetic resonance from other strings (especially the low C). I guess I'll stick to the new tuning since that's how my new teacher wants to work. I kinda miss the low C but I do recognize the register added on the high side. I guess only time will tell.

Which tuning do you personally use if you don't mind me asking.