revaldo29 - 2-13-2005 at 06:28 PM
Hey all,
I've noticed that when you learn oud independently, you often run in to these kind of road blocks and you can't seem to improve from what you
already know. You play and play for weeks but it sounds the same and you just can't make the beautiful sounds that you listen to night and day. One of
the things that I haven't been able to do yet is modulate effectively. Man there is nothing more beautiful than a modulation in to a maqam that just
makes you shiver all over. I've read the technicalities on maqamworld.com but I still can't seem to get it.
Here is my plea for help- if someone has any simple techniques they use to help them modulate, please help me out. If you have any recordings of
easy to learn and follow modulations, let me hear them. I play classical arabic style. Thanx 
TruePharaoh21 - 2-13-2005 at 11:56 PM
While I am absolutely not an authority on taqsim nor on modulation, please allow me to babble for this post.
I think one of the things that you should try to do is... not just go through maqamworld.com, but go through the maqams that are categorized on the
same page. This is a start. For example, doing the Rast-Rast mode on the way up... C D E(half flat) F G A B(half flat) C, and the Rast-Nahawand on the
way down... C D E(half flat) F G A B(flat) C. The second Rast, or Nahawand, in these two cases are played from Sol (G).
So... one of the things you can is then play Hijaz from G. This combination is called Suznak (forgive me, but I don't know what your level in maqamat
are, so if I sound like I'm instructing, I truly, truly apologize). I think it sounds pretty cool when you go from something like Rast-Nahawand to
Rast-Hijaz, so try it out.
You can then play Bayati from Sol (G), while still keeping the first four notes of Rast on C as the same (C D E(half flat) F).
All of these were just working with the second jins, and I don't know if that's what you're looking for. There are more involved things, such as
changing your first jins to Nikriz and such, or going to Saba from any number of places.
The road blocks will come. Be confident that you'll get around them eventually. The technicalities can be overwhelming. My advice is to go as slow as
you can. First time I read about the ajnas, I was like... "cool... wait, what?" And it took me a while to get some things down.
If this was in any way helpful, I'd be glad to post again for some of the other maqamat as well. Also, feel free to e-mail me
(truepharaoh21@yahoo.com) as you work on it. Record it as you're working, and send it to me if you like, and I'll help in any way that I can. I'm also
sure that there are others on the forums that can help you with this as well, so don't worry.
http://www.msocp.com/Personal/Jameel/Sound%20Files/Sounbati/Taqasee...
Please let me know if this was even a slight bit helpful. If it's still overwhelming, don't worry. I'm very patient and very willing to help.
TP21
P.S. Rast can be difficult for those who are just starting, and again, I don't know your level of knowledge for the maqamat, so if explaining it using
Nahawand or Ajam or Kurd or anything is better, please let me know.
David Parfitt - 2-14-2005 at 08:57 AM
Hi Revaldo
I have some info about modulation on my website at:
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/arabmod.html
Hopefully this will be of some help to you.
Best wishes
David
TruePharaoh21 - 2-14-2005 at 09:47 AM
Wow, David. I wish I had come across that months ago when I was trying to figure things out. It sure beats typing out modulations for each maqam in a
long post.
Revaldo, or anyone interested in modulations for that matter, if you'd still like to e-mail me with samples of modulations, I'd be glad to listen and
comment.
truepharaoh21@yahoo.com
Best to you all,
TP21
Brian Prunka - 2-14-2005 at 01:16 PM
Hey David,
you did a great job of summarizing the info from Marcus. that's a really helpful page you made--the info and layout are really clearly presented.
Brian
David Parfitt - 2-14-2005 at 01:37 PM
Hi All
If anyone is interested in a PDF copy of the article by Prof. Scott Marcus on which my modulation page is based, just drop me an email.
It is also possible to buy a copy of Scott Marcus's PhD thesis 'Arab Music Theory in the Modern Period' online. This is an incredibly detailed
resource, but is also very clear and understandable - it contains the info on modulation and a lot more besides. Again, let me know if you need
details of where to order it.
Best wishes
David
mavrothis - 2-14-2005 at 02:18 PM
That's really a great summary David. It seems that it shows one more difference between Arabic and Ottoman modulation practices than I had
consciously noticed before. In Ottoman music, making a modulation from Huseyni to Rast or Rast to Ushak (changing the tonic note by one whole step up
or down) is pretty common, but according to Dr. Marcus, yourself, and from what I've heard from taqsim examples, this type of change isn't that common
in Arabic playing generally.
Since these kinds of modulations occur in Ottoman pieces that are played in both circles (i.e. Tatyos' Huseyni Saz Semai) I wonder why the modulation
practices didn't carry over into the Arabic taqsim playing. It's interesting that there is common ground in repertoire, but that the same type of
modulations found in a common piece don't occur in both taqsim styles.
Are the Ottoman compositions seen as exceptions or special, outside cases by Arabic-style performers in general? I'm just curious. 
Take care,
mavrothis
ps - Aren't the single step modulations also common in Persian music, as when the santur moves in a concert cycle in it's fixed tuning? They also
occur in Byzantine music. Sorry if I'm being annoying.
oudplayer - 2-14-2005 at 06:08 PM
hey all revaldo i am on the same part with you you are 100% beter then me and have a beter ear but i am learnign i know the differ maqum but i dont
know where to begin with the malduation praosses.its all one bog blur.\thx sammy
WOW!!
revaldo29 - 2-14-2005 at 09:16 PM
Man what a great response. TruePaharao, thanx for the info my man. David, I looked at your site and it is really really good. Oh by the way, I need to
send you some pictures of my oud for your site. Also, could you please send me that Pdf. I'm going to print it out and read it more carefully
(revaldo29@gmail.com). Pharo, I will sit down this weekend and try all of your suggestions. I think that instead of sending you emails for help and
recordings, it would be more useful to others if we did it on the forum. So, probably this weekend, I will try out some modulations and make a
recording. I will post it on here and the pros can criticize away. Thanks for the responses.
TruePharaoh21 - 2-14-2005 at 09:53 PM
Revaldo, I'm glad you found the info to be easily absorbed. 
If I were you, I'd focus on just one modulation at a time. That is to say, pick a maqam, for example... Nahawand-Kurd, and then go to Nahawand-Hijaz,
and keep doing it until you find a cool way to switch it. Some players switch it right in the middle of their playing, and some wait until the next
segment of the takassim. It's all a matter of taste. Nevertheless, I suggest that you just stick to one for now.
Any idea what you'll pick for this weekend? I'm already anticipating great things from you, man. The best of luck to you.
TP21
David Parfitt - 2-15-2005 at 12:39 AM
Hi Mav
Not sure I'm qualified to answer this - maybe Brian could help us out here? I remember we discussed the Ottoman/Arabic connection previously in
relation to some of Simon Shaheen's playing.
Best wishes
David
Modulations in Songs
TruePharaoh21 - 2-15-2005 at 10:44 AM
Hey everyone. I was corresponding with David Parfitt over e-mails, and we came up with a suggestion that hopefully we can all contribute to.
One of the things that was brought up was that it's difficult to get a real hold of how to modulate from maqam to maqam without having an example of
it. Maqamworld.com provides us with the maqamat and the examples for each, but it doesn't give examples of modulations (though it provides us with a
great breakdown of one of Sunbati's takassims... which leads into our suggestion).
We thought it'd be beneficial to those on the forums if we were to take a song and break it into its different maqamat, and post the sound files to
show when this modulation took place. For example, we could take one of Om Kolthoum's songs, and break it into the maqamat that comprise it, or we can
start a bit easier and go for a song that's only a few minutes long and break that down.
Essentially, it'd be something like... "From 0:00 to 0:20, we are in maqam Kurd on A... then, at 0:20 until 0:43, it's Hijaz Kar on A. Nahawand on D
comes in next, until 1:36" and so on and so forth. Then, we can all download the file, and listen to it and we'd have a better grasp of things.
Some of the songs that we have are not on 440, which may sound like it would be a problem if one wanted to actually play along with it without having
to alter the tuning of the oud. For that, I'd be more than glad to accept the sound file through e-mail (truepharaoh21@yahoo.com), and I'd change the
pitch of it. Before posting it, I'd check with someone else on the forum to see if the pitch I've changed it to is right on 440, and then we could
begin from there.
Imagine wanting to learn how to play a song, not knowing how to read musical notation, and being able to go online and see where each maqam takes
place in a song. Again, this is only a suggestion, but I think it'd be very beneficial for those wanting to learn how to modulate.
What do you guys think?
TP21
Brian Prunka - 2-15-2005 at 01:47 PM
That sounds like a great idea, TP . . . maybe we should start with a sama'i or muwashshah, since the modulations are usually pretty clear and
structured. maybe something everyone would know, like sama'i bayati al-aryan?
Mav, I'm not sure where in Tatyos's Huseyni Sama'i you're talking about.
My analysis of that sama'i would be (arabic key):
khana I: bayati on A
Taslim: bayati on D (with some jiharkah)
Khana II: Rast on G
khana III: rast on high C, hints of sikah on B-b-, nahawand on G
khana IV: Bayati on D, jiharkah, nakriz on F, jiharkah, bayati.
The only thing that would seem to contradict the "rule" about modulating by step is the rast on high C. Marcus doesn't really get into this, but it
seems like the D-based maqamat often can modulate to a C-based maqam in the upper octave, just not in the lower octave.
It's practically built into saba.
I have noticed the step-type modulations occurring in ottoman music in other cases, especially in some of the sufi music.
I've discussed this with Simon and Bassam, and my understanding is that you can modulate to the maqam a step away, but it should be a brief, passing
modulation (or temporary tonicization), rather than an extended development.
i can't think of an example in the repertoire of an extended modulation to D from C or from D down to C. There seem to be a few examples of
modulation from C up to B-b- or from D up to C . . . you occasionally do hear these in taqasim, but mostly in passing. maybe you can point out an
interesting example? Maybe the ones where this happens are just not usually played by Arab musicians . . .
TruePharaoh21 - 2-15-2005 at 02:53 PM
Hey Brian,
I too was thinking about the samais. One of the things is, though, is that I've heard quite a number of different interpretations of the same samai,
sometimes in which one has Hijaz in it instead of Bayati, or vice versa. Have you come across examples like this?
I think to avoid confusion, if you don't mind, the Samai that you mentioned can be posted by you, so that everyone's working off of the same frame of
reference. I don't know how this will strike you, but hopefully it'll come to fruition.
Samais are more structured in their modulations, I agree.
Perhaps if no one mentions a song that they want to learn, then we can start with the samais, or just have a giant mix of things. Or, we can post the
Samai modulations in one post, and the Song Modulations in another, and then we could hit two birds with one stone.
Your call, fellas.
TP21
recording
revaldo29 - 2-18-2005 at 08:34 AM
Hey all,
Ok, I found some time last night to sit down and record something. This clip is a little long ( 4:30) but there was a lot of modulation. I can
only tell the first 3 or so modulations becuase I jumped all over the place at the end. I started off in rast on C then moved to hijaz on g, then to
saba on g and then down to saba on D for a brief second, then I ended on the C major scale (I don't know the maqam). Hopefully someone out there can
provide some criticism of technique, modulation or anything else for that matter. Here you go: