Mike's Oud Forums

Why is Turkish D=440Hz and how did the different Turkish tuning system come about?

ilovegreentea - 3-24-2017 at 05:02 PM

Hello everybody! I'm been playing the oud for about 2 years now, mostly on Turkish saz semaisi! I've got a couple questions on Turkish oud and perhaps someone could help me with it? I tried to look online but couldn't find any helpful explanation

1. Why is Turkish D = 440Hz?

2. How did the different tuning system come about? I understand that Bolahenk (sounding a 4th lower than written) is a very common tuning system. I've also played on Kiz (7th lower) sometimes. I vaguely remember it has something to do with the type of Ney.

Hope someone could explain them to me! It'll be really helpful! Thanks ya!!

Thank

Jody Stecher - 3-24-2017 at 06:42 PM

The pitch Dugah (found on the open third course of a Turkish oud) is indicated in Turkish notation with the symbol denoting A in western notation: the second space from the bottom in the treble clef. This symbol on the page does not denote an absolute pitch but if Neva (open second string) is 220 then what you are calling D would be between 164 and 165 hz, a pitch called "E" in the west.

A 440 is found on the highest oud course a whole step above where the neck meets the body.

In my opinion this system of notation came about through nationalism. I am no well rounded historian......just well rounded in the belly :-) ..... but it seems to me that Turkish theoreticians wanted to sever ties with the Ottoman past and with the music of its geographic neighbors in order to establish a unique identity. "We do it like this". That's how it appears to me. I am ready to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Use the Search function on this website to find out everything you want to know about this subject. It has been discussed several times in the past few years.
Quote: Originally posted by ilovegreentea  
Hello everybody! I'm been playing the oud for about 2 years now, mostly on Turkish saz semaisi! I've got a couple questions on Turkish oud and perhaps someone could help me with it? I tried to look online but couldn't find any helpful explanation

1. Why is Turkish D = 440Hz?



2. How did the different tuning system come about? I understand that Bolahenk (sounding a 4th lower than written) is a very common tuning system. I've also played on Kiz (7th lower) sometimes. I vaguely remember it has something to do with the type of Ney.

Hope someone could explain them to me! It'll be really helpful! Thanks ya!!

Thank

elreyrico - 3-25-2017 at 01:39 AM

bolahenk notation (with rast on G on the staff) allow writing all makams with a limited number of accidentals. So that it is easy to read and write.

then ottoman music it is a music to be played "by heart" and it is originally a vocal music,

so once you know the melody, you transpose it to any key, to fit the singers voice or you own taste

Jody Stecher - 3-25-2017 at 07:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by elreyrico  
bolahenk notation (with rast on G on the staff) allow writing all makams with a limited number of accidentals. So that it is easy to read and write.

then ottoman music it is a music to be played "by heart" and it is originally a vocal music,

so once you know the melody, you transpose it to any key, to fit the singers voice or you own taste


I agree with the last two lines of your post. But easy to read and write? Not for me. As for limited accidentals, isn't that a function of key signature? How does representing Rast as G make anything easier? A musician can transpose from standard C notation just as easily as from Bolahenk. So I am unconvinced that Bolahenk makes anything easy. But maybe I am missing some information. In my experience, admittedly limited, it makes things unnecessarily complicated.