Mike's Oud Forums - Powered by XMB

Joseph Tawadros and humility

Chris-Stephens - 6-24-2017 at 07:38 AM

Deleted

Jody Stecher - 6-24-2017 at 12:18 PM

JT has made a career in the field of New Australian Music. He has chosen to present himself in a way that has worked for him in that field. In all musical fields good artists present a persona with varying degrees of humility or of bravado and exhibitionism. I don't have a problem with a virtuoso claiming to be one. Using apparent humility as a way of furthering one's career is not very different, in my opinion, from displaying plumage to the same end. It takes all kinds and good musicians come in all sorts of personality packages. As for displays of humility in the maqam world, I have not observed that to be the norm. Audiences want stars to admire. I agree that it is silly but I don't think it warrants harsh commentary. Perhaps the occasional rolling of the eyes is an appropriate reaction. I have observed in some musicians towering self-regard wrapped in humble packages. I have also seen some who are preening peacox on stage be generous and articulate teachers and to be utterly straightforward offstage.
re the spelling of p-cox, the website automatically censors the correct spelling.

Chris-Stephens - 6-24-2017 at 07:52 PM

Deleted

TruePharaoh21 - 6-25-2017 at 06:01 AM

My goodness. I haven't seen a character attack on these forums at any time in recent memory. What a shame to have such a remarkably harsh judgment on a man you most likely have never met and don't know his personal life.

Would you like to see Joey's humility? I'm sure he either already has or will soon see this, and will forgive any misgivings you've had towards him.

Sad that the content on the forums has come to this.

Jody Stecher - 6-25-2017 at 06:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens

Thanks Jody, I appreciate the response. I suppose this is just kind of an unspoken social rule that you wouldn't go around calling yourself a virtuoso, it just seems off. Im sorry so sound harsh, I guess this is my old man mentality coming out :mad:

This issue has nothing to do with him as an oud player or a person in general, its just about the focus being more on the "image" he puts out rather than the actual music, which I feel is not how my favorite musicians present themselves. To each their own I suppose.

Chris, *all* professional musicians who are virtuosos make the claim in their publicity. It is not bad manners. It is not bragging and it is not unseemly. It is no worse than saying the instrument on the recording is an oud (or piano or whatever it happens to be). If the musician can play fast and clear in a musically satisfying way, why hide the fact and sell fewer recordings, and have lower attendance at concerts? Most of the time it is a publicist, a manager, a concert presenter, or a booking agent making the claim, not the musician himself. As for photos on the cover of recordings.... well gosh, that applies to hundreds of thousands of musicians. Long ago a record company representative explained to me that record buyers generally do want to see what the artist looks like. It's for the public, not for the gratification of the artist. In interviews JT does not say "I am a great player". He says that it is a privilege and an honor to have an audience and to have the life of a professional musician.That is humility. He doesn't say people are lucky to be able to hear him.

Ahmed - 6-25-2017 at 08:49 AM

I agree with TruePharaoh21, this is is not the sort of discussion we want to be having on this forum. And couldn't be more wrong about JT.

Let me add my 2 cents though, I know JT personally and consider him a good friend since seeing him in concert a few years ago. Apart from being a great oud player with amazing technical abilities and a talented composer, JT is great personality both on and off stage, a fun person to be around with and who has an excellent sense of humour. And not to mention, very friendly and down to Earth.

And yes , he is an artist with his own sartorial style. Dressing nicely does not necessarily mean dressing expensively. You can find some decent clothing in second hand and vintage shops at a decent price. Even then, nothing wrong with that. Anyway that's off topic.

Marcus - 6-25-2017 at 10:04 PM

" I guess this is my old man mentality coming out"

It really looks like!! No one around you to criticize? So you need to bother us?
Sorry, my english is not good enough to tell my feelings about your post without getting to personell.

Care for your own style and leave others like they want!
Hope you get what I mean.

Chris-Stephens - 6-26-2017 at 05:37 AM

Deleted

Jody Stecher - 6-26-2017 at 07:00 AM

The oud, like the guitar, can be, and has been, many things. Of course it can be the instrument of a rock star. It can be anything. Have you never been to a middle eastern night club? Presentation can be very gaudy. Oh yes indeed. Have you never seen a blindingly blinged-out Cairo or Palestinian oud? Quiet dignity is but one corner of the wide wide world of the oud.

I have never even noticed JT's clothing.

Can you show us one instance where JT personally claims to be a virtuoso? (not that I would mind if he did).

Can you show us one instance where the promo and recordings of a virtuoso do not use the V word?

I think you have a bee in your bonnet about JT. OK, fine. You wish he would conform to your standards. But please don't present that personal standard as conforming with historical accuracy or universal Oud player behavior. The entire spectrum from flamboyant to self-effacing has been represented over the years.

Apologies to those worthy forum members who would rather see this thread meet an early demise.

Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens

I'm sure he's a great person. This isn't a character attack, but a concern I have with how one can reconcile the flaunting of ones image and being a servant of a respected and dignified instrument like the oud. This isn't the instrument to turn yourself into a rock star. You can say I'm a purist and probably an elitist and traditionalist. I'm just saying what it looks like, and what it looks like is the "look how great I am" mentality that's so off putting about pop music. I can see how producers, agents, record labels, marketing folks would influence this image so I retract my statement somewhat. And no I disagree that you can claim for yourself " I am a virtuoso ". This is a compliment someone else gives you, not you to yourself. I mean no harm, but it's pretty clear I'm in the wrong to be judgemental but this is how we learn. I just find his obsession with fancy clothes distracting from the great music he makes.

Chris-Stephens - 6-26-2017 at 07:15 AM

Great points. I hear what you're saying. My opinion is that music should be about music, not fashion. I have loved this music and sought refuge from the pop star mentality in it. It's pure classical music to me and I would assume a solo pianist with a Mohawk would get equal scoffs if they played like that in a performance hall. So I am the one who scoffs. It's just my opinion though and others can disagree. This topic was a mistake so it should be deleted.

Jason - 6-29-2017 at 02:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens

I would assume a solo pianist with a Mohawk would get equal scoffs if they played like that in a performance hall.

Not sure how involved you are in modern western art music but that kind of stuff isn't unheard of at all, especially among younger "virtuoso" type players. When I was in music school there were probably as many kids with neon hair and weird piercing than those without.

TruePharaoh21 - 7-5-2017 at 07:38 AM

Though I don't usually like to resurrect a thread that shouldn't have started to begin with... I came across a video in which Joey addresses the term viruoso right from the start of an interview. Perhaps this can give you a bit of insight into his own thoughts:

https://www.facebook.com/ABCRNMusic/videos/1790299007892036/

mavrothis - 7-7-2017 at 05:56 AM

I wasn't going to take part in this thread at all, but half jokingly and half seriously, if you have a problem with JT's style, then you probably have a problem with the region and history of the oud in general, especially the Arab world. Photo is a case in point.

Let's stick to music and instruments on this forum, and not misguided diatribes. If anyone is in need of humility, it is the original poster, I'd say on several fronts.

I personally love JT's style, and tradition certainly lines up more with his sensibilities than T-shirts and jeans.

Chris-Stephens - 7-11-2017 at 07:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mavrothis

I wasn't going to take part in this thread at all, but half jokingly and half seriously, if you have a problem with JT's style, then you probably have a problem with the region and history of the oud in general, especially the Arab world. Photo is a case in point.

Let's stick to music and instruments on this forum, and not misguided diatribes. If anyone is in need of humility, it is the original poster, I'd say on several fronts.

I personally love JT's style, and tradition certainly lines up more with his sensibilities than T-shirts and jeans.

I see a tremendous difference between that and what he wears. I suppose it's because he's younger, and doing something different, so this topic is a waste of time. I expressed my opinion, apologized for sounding judgmental, but the fact remains I find his fashion obsession an unnecessary part of his great music. I do appreciate seeing more pictures of the traditional outfits oud players have worn though.

BTW i'm humbler than anyone in the world

can a mod please delete this whole topic !

JT83 - 9-18-2017 at 11:10 AM

I hope this explains it

)

https://www.facebook.com/167094443352707/videos/1645049538890516/