Mike's Oud Forums

Why is the Oud the only Arabic Lute?

Chris-Stephens - 2-3-2018 at 08:28 PM

I'm just curious about something that may not even have an answer, but across the Middle East and Asia, each 'cultural region' has multiple lutes -

Turkey has oud, tanbur, baglama, cumbus;

Persia has oud/barbat, tar, setar, tanbur;

India has sitar, sarod, veena,

Afghan has rubab, sitar, dutar,

China has pipa, ruan, liuqin, sanxian

Vietnam has dan day, dan nguyet, dan tam

Yet Japans Shamisen, the Azeri Tar, and Arab Oud are the singular cultural lute for their region.

Any thoughts on this observation?

John Erlich - 2-3-2018 at 11:28 PM

Mostly, but not entirely, true. There are some use of other traditional stringed instruments in the Arab world, but a bit marginal, compared to the other cultures you describe. For example, there is some buzuq in Lebanon and Syria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2B3_RUWJKM . Another example is the guembri in Morocco - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_qThG8<b>hug</b>

abc123xyz - 2-4-2018 at 12:17 AM

But the Azeris have a saz beside the tar, Japan the biwa beside the shamisen, and, as John already noted, the Middle-East includes the buzuq.

David

Jody Stecher - 2-4-2018 at 08:09 AM

Morocco has giimbri and snitra. Algeria has mandolin and kwitra and oud 'arbi. Tunisia has another kind of oud 'arbi. In days gone by Egypt and Lebanon had a tanbur, perhaps another name for buzuq. Syria has buzuq. And that's just what has appeared on recordings available in "the west". Dig deeper you will find all sorts of "lutes" almost anywhere. As for India, you just scratched the surface, there are so many.

Brian Prunka - 2-5-2018 at 06:10 AM

Well, since the Arabs perfected the lute when they made the oud, what's the point of any other lute? :D

Badra - 2-5-2018 at 11:34 AM

Arabs have oud and buzuq. But the buzuq and other long necked lutes such as the ones you list for Iran and Turkey are less in demand to satisfy the needs of Arabic music. The demand for these type of lutes is low in Arab music, therefore no need to expand beyond buzuq.

Chris-Stephens - 2-5-2018 at 06:09 PM

Great points, all, and yes I missed some lutes along the way from each region, these were just examples, - but I would hardly call the saz an Azeri lute, every player i've ever heard has been Turkish or Kurdish only. Are there some Azeri saz players you could recommend? And yes I forgot about the Biwa as hardly anyone plays it anymore but it is another lute so it really is the Mashriq that only has one main lute. I was unaware of the Buzuk! And i'm mainly thinking of the Mashriq when referring of the "Arab" world but I appreciate the Maghrebi information too. And I agree Brian the Oud is perfect so no need to reinvent the wheel! I just find it interesting that some cultures have multiple lutes and others only one :shrug:

Badra - 2-6-2018 at 12:30 PM

Personally, I wish there was more buzuq in Arabic music. I think it sounds great. Here are a couple examples...

https://youtu.be/XrxOfE2G1bA?t=23s
https://youtu.be/3MHybsf82Bk?t=3m20s

bugaga - 2-6-2018 at 02:36 PM

[rquote=115529&tid=17477&author=Chris-Stephens but I would hardly call the saz an Azeri lute, every player i've ever heard has been Turkish or Kurdish only.[/ rquote]
Also Azerbayjan has an Aşik tradition. As you can see in this video also their saz has a different playing position, more strings, a different fretting system, plus a different style and tuning, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_WX15L-OCA
As there are many Azeri people in Iran, you also find the same instrument and tradition in Iran.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-kuqmSV0s
One could say, saz is a Turkish instrument, but not only.
Plus saz comes in so many different forms in Turkey already and some of them show different links to Persian-Kurdish tambour or Persian dotar, which both of them again have a big family in many cultures/countries.
Here a nice improvisation on ruzba, which belongs to the Turkish saz family;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7h2BBFh9IY
Instrument creation is an evolition and doesn't know borders.

SamirCanada - 2-6-2018 at 03:40 PM

Let's not forget Matar Mohamed the farid el atrash of buzuq.
I would say in Lebanon buzuq is probably just as popular as the oud. Many famous musicians and composers are known for including it in their pieces. I am thinking ziyad rahbani in particular

Enjoy this. https://youtu.be/gt-wW6vmY_8

Jody Stecher - 2-6-2018 at 05:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada  
Let's not forget Matar Mohamed the farid el atrash of buzuq.
I would say in Lebanon buzuq is probably just as popular as the oud. Many famous musicians and composers are known for including it in their pieces. I am thinking ziyad rahbani in particular

Enjoy this. https://youtu.be/gt-wW6vmY_8


And don't forget Mohammed Abd El Karim. One might say he was the Sunbati of buzuk!

Chris-Stephens - 2-6-2018 at 07:09 PM

Thank you bugaga and Samir for the examples! Love finding new instruments!

majnuunNavid - 2-9-2018 at 10:32 AM

Let's not forget the southern Arabian-peninsula's instrument called Gambus, which may have melted into the Oud at some point. But it's still used today.

The Gambus was imported into Malaysia and that's why there are so many Oud players in Malaysia. In Malaysia, Gambus and Oud are sometime synonymous. But a Gambus is definitely not an Oud, but sometimes Ouds are called Gambus.

abc123xyz - 2-17-2018 at 12:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens  
- but I would hardly call the saz an Azeri lute, every player i've ever heard has been Turkish or Kurdish only.

The Azeri saz is different from the Ottoman saz. Sāz is a Persian word for musical instrument that has become attached to a variety of instruments in the East.

This lady seems to be popular on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=A%C5%9F%C4%B1k+Z%C3%BCl...

David