Mike's Oud Forums

Changing Oud's action

pouryatorabi - 10-18-2019 at 04:14 AM

Hi everyone
I have bought a Sukar used oud from a friend, my master tells me the action is high for me, first of all, what should be an standard action height, and secondly, is it possible that I change the action?
By the way I'm an engineer, so I have all the required tools and experience in working with them.:cool:
Waiting for your advices.:)

alim - 10-18-2019 at 08:58 AM

I think the Sukar Ouds have adjustable truss rods for action adjustment. See here (for Zyrab Ouds):
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=16866#pid11...

Cheers,

Ali-

Brian Prunka - 10-18-2019 at 09:19 AM

It's not a truss rod but there is a bolt on Sukar ouds which allows you to make small adjustments. You loosen the nut and gently pull the neck into position and re-tighten the nut. There are a few forum threads about this.

Re-drilling the bridge holes is not usually the correct solution, since the problem is generally the neck angle and not the height at the bridge.

Worst case scenario is to saw off the neck and reattach it using a dowel at the correct angle, but this is a tricky process.

Dr. Oud - 10-18-2019 at 08:44 PM

Don't redrill the bridge because if you lower the strings there you won't have any clearance for your mizrab action. So you'd only be able to pluck horizontal and very lightly.

The action often raises because the body of the oud bends under the string pressure. Optimum height is 2mm for shorter Turkish stringlengths, 3mm for longer Arabic ouds.

There is a method to bend the body back using a heating pad on the back and clamping a stiff board at the neck body joint. The board spans from the top nut to the tail end with a pad at the tail to clear the bridge. Send me an email and I'll send you some pictures. I can't post them in a reply here.

pouryatorabi - 11-14-2019 at 11:31 AM

Sorry for my late reply, I was on a trip, I showed my oud to an oudmaker, he told me the grip is replaced and so it has no adjustable rod or anything. Here are some pics of my oud:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=191wy5CK1r0kNIpaoZ1YiM7lAfo94CqQS
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eSO4obYTfd4-3WOKg12Qs_4BPBT_nKgA
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13tcN63rSdat471pzPJiRXag4uXkuet-k

Brian Prunka - 11-14-2019 at 01:13 PM

yeah, that action is crazy high. You definitely don't have any room to lower the strings at the bridge though.
Usual solution is to cut the neck off and reattach at the proper angle.

pouryatorabi - 11-15-2019 at 06:20 AM

They said it would cost me around 300 to 500 in dollars, I have bought this oud for 600 dollars so I don't want to spend that much, Can I somehow do it myself?

MattOud - 11-15-2019 at 07:53 AM

Brian is correct. The solution is to fix that neck!

I bought a Sukar, luckily much cheaper($300), and has a great luthier near me fix the sukar. It required neck work and was refitted with a new fingerboard(see documented here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=17164)
It came out GREAT! and cost me, I believe $250 with new pegs, strings, fingerboard, and set-up real nice!

To be honest, i am more nervous on your soundboard, which looks cracked to me?? I hope i am wrong, but if this is the case, you may need that fixed as well since this is important.
I hope it works out for you. Sukars are beautiful.!

Brian Prunka - 11-15-2019 at 08:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pouryatorabi  
They said it would cost me around 300 to 500 in dollars, I have bought this oud for 600 dollars so I don't want to spend that much, Can I somehow do it myself?


This doesn't actually make a lot sense.
Think about it.

If you don't fix the oud, you've lost $600.

Even if we assume that is all the oud is worth (not a great assumption), then at most you could sell it for $100 to someone willing to pay to fix it. So you're straight up out $500 at least, with no oud.

If you fix the oud, you've got an oud that you ultimately paid (up to) $1100 for. Maybe this oud is worth that much (some Sukars are, depending on how good they sound), some aren't. It's probably still worth 700-800, but it doesn't really matter—you have a playable oud.

If you were to try to buy a new oud, let's say you could get a nice one for $500. You're now out $1000 for your $500 oud, because you lost $500 from the first one (assuming you could get $100 selling the first one). So you might be slightly ahead in that case, assuming you can find a good, playable oud with no issues for $500. Which honestly seems very unlikely.

If you try to do this yourself and fail, now you have a pile of scraps worth almost nothing. If the people working to build the original oud weren't able to do it perfectly, despite building hundreds or thousands of ouds, what are the odds that you (with no experience) are going to be successful? If you had a background in instrument building or repair, or were a particularly skilled general woodworker, maybe you could do it.
That's for you to judge, I guess.

The reality is that ouds often require repairs and maintenance, they are delicate instruments. Any oud is going to require you to put money into it over time.
Kind of like buying a car—you should be assuming that there is a cost of ownership.

pouryatorabi - 11-26-2019 at 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MattOud  
Brian is correct. The solution is to fix that neck!

I bought a Sukar, luckily much cheaper($300), and has a great luthier near me fix the sukar. It required neck work and was refitted with a new fingerboard(see documented here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=17164)
It came out GREAT! and cost me, I believe $250 with new pegs, strings, fingerboard, and set-up real nice!

To be honest, i am more nervous on your soundboard, which looks cracked to me?? I hope i am wrong, but if this is the case, you may need that fixed as well since this is important.
I hope it works out for you. Sukars are beautiful.!

That post seems to work for me, I must show it to a luthier so he can help me, and yes the sound board is cracked, don't know why I haven't notice it :( It's lack of experience I think.

pouryatorabi - 11-26-2019 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Quote: Originally posted by pouryatorabi  
They said it would cost me around 300 to 500 in dollars, I have bought this oud for 600 dollars so I don't want to spend that much, Can I somehow do it myself?


This doesn't actually make a lot sense.
Think about it.

If you don't fix the oud, you've lost $600.

Even if we assume that is all the oud is worth (not a great assumption), then at most you could sell it for $100 to someone willing to pay to fix it. So you're straight up out $500 at least, with no oud.

If you fix the oud, you've got an oud that you ultimately paid (up to) $1100 for. Maybe this oud is worth that much (some Sukars are, depending on how good they sound), some aren't. It's probably still worth 700-800, but it doesn't really matter—you have a playable oud.

If you were to try to buy a new oud, let's say you could get a nice one for $500. You're now out $1000 for your $500 oud, because you lost $500 from the first one (assuming you could get $100 selling the first one). So you might be slightly ahead in that case, assuming you can find a good, playable oud with no issues for $500. Which honestly seems very unlikely.

If you try to do this yourself and fail, now you have a pile of scraps worth almost nothing. If the people working to build the original oud weren't able to do it perfectly, despite building hundreds or thousands of ouds, what are the odds that you (with no experience) are going to be successful? If you had a background in instrument building or repair, or were a particularly skilled general woodworker, maybe you could do it.
That's for you to judge, I guess.

The reality is that ouds often require repairs and maintenance, they are delicate instruments. Any oud is going to require you to put money into it over time.
Kind of like buying a car—you should be assuming that there is a cost of ownership.


That's a lot of math :)) Repairing this oud seems out of my hands, I thought may be a simple adjustment can do the work. The sound of this oud is really nice so I think I have to do something about it till I can afford to buy a better one.