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How to Tune a 12-string Egyptian Oud?

maie - 7-15-2020 at 08:14 PM

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum so apologies if this has been asked before, but I just purchased my first oud, and am learning and practicing using izif.com, but I can't find a good resource on how to properly tune my oud.

This is the oud I purchased: https://www.arabinstruments.com/egyptian-oud-3040

I previously had it tuned to CFADGC, which worked fine, even though the sound was very deep and not bright at all.

I also saw some advice to tune it to GADGC, and not use the bottom set of strings, and although the sound is a lot brighter and sounds more like the oud played in the videos I learn from, this doesn't seem right...can anyone offer any advice here? thanks in advance!!

Jody Stecher - 7-15-2020 at 09:09 PM

The oud in the video is tuned in F tuning. That's why it sounds bright. It's tuned high. You need to find out if the strings on your oud are for C tuning or F tuning.

F tuning: FF AA dd gg cc ff

tuning one course up one step (from FF to GG) should not significantly brighten the oud. Tuning a string set designed for F tuning all the way down to C tuning will certainly give a dull sound.
Tuning a set of strings designed for C tuning up to F tuning will break the oud if the strings don't break first.

maie - 7-16-2020 at 11:00 AM

The strings I have are definitely not for F tuning. I'll stick to the C tuning I've been using, now that I know it was working as intended and I hadn't picked a wrong tuning. Thank you so much!!

Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher

The oud in the video is tuned in F tuning. That's why it sounds bright. It's tuned high. You need to find out if the strings on your oud are for C tuning or F tuning.

F tuning: FF AA dd gg cc ff

tuning one course up one step (from FF to GG) should not significantly brighten the oud. Tuning a string set designed for F tuning all the way down to C tuning will certainly give a dull sound.
Tuning a set of strings designed for C tuning up to F tuning will break the oud if the strings don't break first.

Jody Stecher - 7-16-2020 at 11:28 AM

Generally the low C course is single. Not a pair.

maie - 7-20-2020 at 06:54 PM

I see; my oud has pairs all the way through...how can I find out if these strings were maybe intended for F tuning without damaging the oud? Or is it sometimes intended to have a low C with a pair as well?

Jason - 7-20-2020 at 09:00 PM

With F tuning you'll have three courses of clear nylon whereas you'd have two sets in C-c tuning.

maie - 7-20-2020 at 10:29 PM

Ohhh, okay this is helpful. I do indeed have 3 courses of clear nylon, I've attached a photo of the strings I have.

I'm still very very new to learning oud, so I'm extra cautious as this is all new to me! Would these strings likely be meant for F tuning?

Jason - 7-21-2020 at 05:41 AM

Yep those strings are for F tuning... FF AA dd gg cc ff

Jody Stecher - 7-21-2020 at 07:52 AM

The photo makes it clear: these are F tuning strings. If you prefer C tuning, and if these strings now on the oud are new and good quality, you can just move each course over one position, put aside the ff strings, and just buy one C string. But before you do that —and I say this as someone who prefers C tuning — tune your present strings up to where they are intended to be tuned. See if you like F tuning or at least find out, without changing strings, what your oud really sounds like. You will be surprised, probably pleasantly surprised.

maie - 7-21-2020 at 08:35 PM

Thank you both so much for your answers -- I tuned it up properly today before I practiced with it, and I like how it sounds so much more. I can't play enough yet to say I have a preference for C or F tuning but I feel way more confident practicing knowing it's tuned properly at least! Maybe with a little more experience down the road I can try that C tuning setup, but that will probably take some time. I had been trying to figure the tuning out since the oud arrived a few weeks ago; this was super helpful!

Jody Stecher - 7-21-2020 at 09:12 PM

Just in case the following isn't obvious: you can finger the strings exactly the same as if you were in C and everything will come out 4 notes higher than in C tuning. But whatever you learned so far is still valid. OR you can finger everything one pair of strings lower and it will come out in C. If this doesn't make sense, it will later.

Brian Prunka - 7-22-2020 at 09:26 AM

To add to Jody's comment — it's not hard to switch later if you decide to go to C tuning. Like Jody, I prefer it but in the end it is not that important. Many traditional players like Abdel Wahab, Qassabgi, Daoud Hosni, etc would use one or the other depending on the situation or even tune somewhere in between like Eb.

Jody Stecher - 7-22-2020 at 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

To add to Jody's comment — it's not hard to switch later if you decide to go to C tuning. Like Jody, I prefer it but in the end it is not that important. Many traditional players like Abdel Wahab, Qassabgi, Daoud Hosni, etc would use one or the other depending on the situation or even tune somewhere in between like Eb.

I've always assumed that when i heard that open high ff course on recordings by those you named, and George Michel too, that they were playing a 7 course oud. Wrong assumption?

Brian Prunka - 7-24-2020 at 07:38 AM

There may be some exceptions, but I think 7-course ouds were extremely uncommon until fairly recently.
I've seen a lot of old ouds that just had 5 courses, so even 6 courses was a relatively recent standard.

Whenever I've heard old recordings with the high f', the lowest string has been tuned to F or G.
Sometimes the whole tuning is transposed (so e.g., F C d g c' f' or F Bb d g c' f') sometimes it's like the f' is just added (so e.g., F A d g c' f' or G A d g c' f').

Jack_Campin - 7-25-2020 at 02:11 AM

GAdgc'f' works well on a cümbüş.

tjgriffin - 9-30-2020 at 04:33 AM

How much does the oud itself figure into it? I recently got a 12 string, tuned E, A, d, g, c, with a single course on the E. I got set of 12 strings (Angel AOE-12), the high 3 courses are nylon. I naively tuned it to C F A d g c. The low C was just dead. Tuning it up, it seems to brighten up between D and D#. It sounds really good at E.

After reading this thread, I checked the package and they are indeed intended to be tuned to F. How can I tell if it can be tuned that high? It's pretty nice, made in Ciaro, ~ 63cm string length, fixed bridge, 12 pegs. The neck was broken and well repaired. What should I be on the lookout for if the tension is too much? What about a double low course?

Thanks!

tjgriffin - 10-7-2020 at 01:44 PM

I did a bit more research and decided tuning those strings to a suitable pitch is probably not a good thing to do. I ordered an 11 string set of Aquila, 70o strings. They are designed to be tuned to C-c and have the lowest tension I could find. Once I get them installed, I'll report back.

Cheers!

tjgriffin - 10-22-2020 at 08:19 PM

The Aquila string were back ordered, so I ordered some Pyramid string for this tuning and they sound MUCH better.

Q: How important is the peg order? I have tried to order it like a 12 string guitar, and that turned out to be a mess. Lots of cross over in the peg box. It was easy to know which peg to turn, but the tuning would jump as I turned the pegs because of the cross over.

When I put these strings on, I ordered it so the highest pitch strings are on pegs closest to the nut. Facing the oud, numbering the strings s1-s12 from right to left across the bridge, and the pegs p1-p12 from the nut out, I put the right most string in each course on peg on the right side of the box, and the left strings on the left. So s1 -> p2, s2 -> p1, s3 -> p4, s4 -> p3, s5 -> p6, s6 -> p5, s7 -> p8, s8 -> p7, s9 -> p10, s10 -> p9, s11 -> p12, (s12 -> p11). I installed them in the string order, s1 first, s2 second, and so on.

I wrapped enough string on the peg so when the string leaves the peg, it is as close to being in direct alignment with the nut slot as possible. I find that if the string travels between the nut and peg at a diagonal, it tends to pull the peg either out of the peg box or in. If out, the peg loosens and slips. If in, then it can be very hard to turn the peg.

I only just put the string on, so they have to stretch before I get it truly tuned. But so far, so good . The tuning is continuous and smooth. The pegs are staying in place. And the box looks nice and clean. I realize if another player wants to tune my oud, I will have to warn them about the peg order.

Any comments?

Thanks!