Mike's Oud Forums

Armenian Songs

ArmoOudist - 11-26-2020 at 06:57 AM

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any resources for sheet music for Armenian songs for the oud? Any sources I fine are sort of a mix of various traditions (Arab, Greek, Turkish, etc.) and I always find the Armenian songs to be lacking.
Thanks!

MattOud - 11-28-2020 at 10:53 AM

Tried searching to hear some players. I like the sound of armenian oud.
Do you like John Bilezikjian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrMwrwy7yE
or more this style maybe ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBBhSfyBi5g
Someone here may have some sheet music. :airguitar:

ArmoOudist - 11-28-2020 at 05:23 PM

John Bilezikjian is wonderful. He has a very clean style.
As you can tell, my ear can only go so far here, some of those melodies get pretty complex. Some sheet music for the melodies could help, and then I can add the ornaments over time.
Thank you!

dario - 11-29-2020 at 02:34 PM

How's this?
https://imslp.org/wiki/104_Armenian_Folk_Songs_(Arakelian%2C_Grigor)

ArmoOudist - 11-29-2020 at 04:08 PM

er....nothing shows up for me when I click that. Sorry...
It just says "there is currently no text in this page."

dario - 11-30-2020 at 10:09 AM

Aha, for some reason it hasn't recognised the whole URL as a hyperlink. Try copy-pasting the whole URL into your browser, that should work...
Or try here:

htps://ks.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usimg/5/55/IMSLP290582-PMLP471743-104ArmSongs.pdf

Again, you might need to copy-paste the URL

ArmoOudist - 12-1-2020 at 06:03 AM

I'll have to look through these and see if they help! Thank you so much!

John Erlich - 12-2-2020 at 06:48 PM

Good quality scores of Armenian music are hard to find. You might find these useful: https://www.houshamadyan.org/mapottomanempire/vilayetdiyarbekir/city...

John Erlich - 12-2-2020 at 06:54 PM

https://www.houshamadyan.org/mapottomanempire/vilayetdiyarbekir/city...

John Erlich - 12-2-2020 at 06:56 PM

http://www.armeniapedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Sheet_Music

John Erlich - 12-2-2020 at 06:58 PM

http://www.mousaler.com/songbook/data/folk.html

ArmoOudist - 12-3-2020 at 05:45 AM

These resources are fantastic! The first two in particular are exactly what I'm looking for. They even have everything in their original Makams! Thanks!

OudSwede - 1-6-2021 at 12:29 AM

Do these three 200 pages volumes provide some Armenian tunes?

Armenian school of oud 1-3:
https://oudarmenia.tumblr.com/ (cannot be downloaded but viewed freely over issuu online viewer. There are online pdf downloaders that makes pdf files from issuu for free, but the quality is not superb. But in this way it can atleast be printed on your own printer at home.

It must be noted that I am not at all an expert on the matter, just a keen collector of scores from different traditions of oud playing...

By the way, I am fond of Armenian sad songs that are often played on Duduk. Are such songs also available for the oud? Folk songs otherwise often tend to be dance tunes. Any suggestions?

Doc139 - 1-6-2021 at 11:01 AM

Does anyone have the sheet music of the traditional armenian song "Hars Em Genoum"?
Can't find it. (Wonderful song btw!)
Alexander

John Erlich - 1-7-2021 at 11:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Doc139  
Does anyone have the sheet music of the traditional armenian song "Hars Em Genoum"?
Can't find it. (Wonderful song btw!)
Alexander


Is this it? https://flat.io/score/56f592a4afb59b541a96c57e-ares-m-nvovm

Doc139 - 1-8-2021 at 10:47 AM

Thanks John! - the title suggests it could be the one, but it's not. At least not the version I have on records. You find it on the CD "Near East, Far West" (iTunes for example), played by the late Haig Manoukian (N.Y.C.) on oud and Souren Baronian (N.Y.C.) on clarinet.
Alexander

hartun - 1-8-2021 at 11:31 AM

ArmoOudist out of the two Diyarbakir pages the one of Onnik's songs has more correct sheet music. The sheet music was prepared by Ara Dinkjian.
The other one has good songs but the transcriber wasn't familiar with makams nor with the 10/8 rhythm.
So just be on the lookout that songs that should be in 10/8 are rarely written that way in sheet music.

By the way where are you located? I am in Metro Detroit

Harry

hartun - 1-8-2021 at 11:33 AM

Generally though, there is very little in the way of sheet music for Armenian oud music.
You can find some songs if they were the ones transcribed in Soviet Armenia, but even those are hard to find on the internet for example.

hartun - 1-8-2021 at 11:36 AM

Most Armenian oudists don't use sheet music, unless they are playing a saz semai or something, then you are dealing with Turkish sheet music.
Oud Swede - the songs you are talking about, there's sheet music out there. Songs like Dle Yaman for example I often play on the oud. But as I was saying about Soviet Armenian sheet music - there's a lot in existence - but not a lot on the internet. And certainly it's not necessarily written for oud, it's written more for piano to be honest, and in whatever key the person felt like.

ArmoOudist - 1-9-2021 at 02:56 PM

Hartun---To be perfectly honest. Shortly after receiving these links, I started to learn some things by ear instead. I just went online, searched some old Hagopian records, slowed down the tempo, and played along until I got the basic melody.
Hagopian's live album at the Seventh Veil is particularly good for learning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA6OOGwHl2A
I'm actually just starting to really dig into microtones. I think I'm getting it right, but I'm not sure, it's a bit tricky to get used to. I'm learning "Fincan," which was very popular with Armenian Kef musicians. Not entirely sure what the Maqam is, but it makes use of B Quarter Flat
https://www.neyzen.com/nota_arsivi/02_klasik_eserler/034_hicaz/finca...
It's a shame that Armenians decided to iron out the quarter tones and 10/8 rhythms in a lot of their music because it was considered too "Turkish". That's why I'm glad the Ara Dinkjian music in one of the links provided keeps things in their original makams. Someone has to keep the traditions alive!
I am based in the Providence area.
-AO

dario - 1-9-2021 at 03:14 PM

This Richard Hagopian video is great for learning his right-hand technique, if you slow it down you can see really clearly how he picks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plIvnp8mzlc
Nice song too!

ArmoOudist - 1-9-2021 at 03:56 PM

Hagopian is a freak when it comes to his picking technique. I'm still getting bidirectional picking down....
He doesn't use chords like Bilezikjian does, but he doesn't have to. He plays so fast it sounds like he's playing six notes at once.

John Erlich - 1-9-2021 at 09:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Doc139  
Thanks John! - the title suggests it could be the one, but it's not. At least not the version I have on records. You find it on the CD "Near East, Far West" (iTunes for example), played by the late Haig Manoukian (N.Y.C.) on oud and Souren Baronian (N.Y.C.) on clarinet.
Alexander


This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXx4jI0DTz0

John Erlich - 1-9-2021 at 09:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  
Quote: Originally posted by Doc139  
Thanks John! - the title suggests it could be the one, but it's not. At least not the version I have on records. You find it on the CD "Near East, Far West" (iTunes for example), played by the late Haig Manoukian (N.Y.C.) on oud and Souren Baronian (N.Y.C.) on clarinet.
Alexander


This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXx4jI0DTz0


The Near East Far West members are/were friends of mine. I just sent an email to the santouri player, asking if they have a score of the song. We'll see!

John Erlich - 1-10-2021 at 11:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  
Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich  
Quote: Originally posted by Doc139  
Thanks John! - the title suggests it could be the one, but it's not. At least not the version I have on records. You find it on the CD "Near East, Far West" (iTunes for example), played by the late Haig Manoukian (N.Y.C.) on oud and Souren Baronian (N.Y.C.) on clarinet.
Alexander


This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXx4jI0DTz0


The Near East Far West members are/were friends of mine. I just sent an email to the santouri player, asking if they have a score of the song. We'll see!


My friend reported that the Near East Far West learned all of their repertoire by ear...no scores.

yavaran - 1-22-2021 at 09:46 PM

I can send a few sheets if you want (message me) but you can easily learn Armenian folk songs by ear! Just takes a few months practice and you can usually pick out the tunes as they have certain motifs that often repeat

ArmoOudist - 1-23-2021 at 05:46 AM

The sheet music would be helpful, but you're right, a lot of this can be learned by ear fairly quickly. It's just a matter of isolating the main melody and slowly adding on all the little flourishes as you gain more skill.

hartun - 3-19-2021 at 06:44 PM

The song Finjan (Fincani Tastan Oyarlar) is in Hijaz

ArmoOudist - 3-20-2021 at 03:55 AM

Oh it is? That's interesting. I remember seeing sheet music for Finjan somewhere and I swear I saw quarter tones. I thought Hijaz didn't have any quarter tones (unless the Turks play Hijaz differently).
The song "Akh Im Anoush Yarus" is also in Hijaz correct?

dario - 3-20-2021 at 05:51 AM

Yep Agh Im Anoush Yarush is hijaz.
The hijaz tetrachord (four-note section of a scale) is quite flexible, so while you can play it on a chromatic instrument as semitone-augmented second-semitone (e.q. A, Bb, C#, D) on the oud it's common to make the semitones wider, so it can even end up as 3/4 tone-tone-3/4 tone (A, B half-flat, C half-sharp, D) in extreme cases. And of course it can be anywhere in between!

ArmoOudist - 3-20-2021 at 06:04 AM

Wow, it just goes to show how learning things by ear is probably the best route to take.

John Erlich - 3-20-2021 at 11:18 PM

http://www.sayat-nova.am/notaner.html